Is it possible for a CG to 'control' their gambling?

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Allain

I don't know where you get this idea from that I'm trying to stop you from having a debate.

It's clearly not worth my time going on. I'm getting lost clarifying minutae.

There was a reason why I spent a lot of effort explaining facts/opinions/truth. When I said controlled addiction appears to never work, you said this was an opinion. This is not an opinion, it's an observation (based on witnessing 10,000s of posters).

The way to rebut that - is to show evidence to the contrary. To point to the long term succes of controlled gamblers on here. Which, you haven't done. You've just 'quibbled' every word I say.

This 'evidence' point ties in with psycho-logical arguments [opinion]. Like I said, most people instantly acknoweldge the truth behind 'I cannot win because I cannot stop' [observation].

Most long term gamblers experience another linked 'truth', which is really not that different from the one above. It is 'I cannot control my gambling (and it's better not to gamble at all)' [observation].

Most people who are sucessful in their approach to this addiction realise this [very important, observation]. Most OHs of gambers realise this [observation]. I get that you haven't [observation]. Maybe you never will [conjecture]. I hope you do as the evidence shows there's a direct correlation between complete abstention and success [observation]. You will increase your prospects of success if you take this approach [opinion, based on observation]. I wish you success regardless

My point primary point has been a mere observation which has got bogged down by definition. My underlying message is to be bold and to have trust in yourself - that you can truly let go.

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Allain

I have refrained to clarifying every point or arguing the toss over every point. This is party because I feel I have expressed myself pretty clearly, and partly because your appetite for definition/nit picking of every point appears insatiable. And because the more I respond to your quibbles, the further we get away from my VERY SIMPLE point.

However, unfortunately mud can stick. If I you keep chucking it, making out I'm ducking your questions, then just this once, I shall go through your post in turn. Know that there are huge flaws in your previous posts which I let go. After that it's lights out for me.

Well the last point your taking the p1$$ so I'll leave it there.

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God, that was a boring exercise but needs must.

I hope anyone reading doesn't get distracted from the key point:

Controlled gambling does not work. No one is saying you MUST abstain. However, you will greatly increase your chances if you do so.

There is a sucessful method and and an unsuccessful method. The degree to which controlled will fail, depends on what end of the wedge your on. Obviously, ocassional lottery will be less risky that 'reacreational gambling' (whatever that means).

In life, it pays to follow sucessful paths. I try to do this when I can. If I see someone who's really good at his job at work, I'l learn. If I notice someone's got an infectious personality, I'll learn. I came here with no view on how to approach this addiction. I followed sucessful people - all of them abstained. I haven't gambled for 4 years.

Final point Allain. When I started this debate with you, I assumed you were thin edge, ocassinal lottery type. It transpires your advocating hardline stuff. I don't normally engage with people in the early stages of active denial or who are still addicts. There's no point. They say black is white.

I'm genuinely surprised at your 'out there' position so willl draw it to a close on my part.

I'm going to brave dipping my toe back into this debate.

I agree with the 'wedge' analogy entirely. An occasional lottery ticket will never have the same impact on a problem gambler than, to go to the thickest end of the wedge, betting on greyhounds rather than horses. Transfering an addiction to something so similar is never going to facilitate control (self-excluding from online casinos but playing slots on FOBTs for example).

Naturally, the further down the wedge you go the more disassociated the activity becomes from your normal gambling 'outlet' and therefore, in some instances, the more chance you have of (in theory) controlling it. The problems with gathering data/case studies from this forum are multiple:

- It is a VERY small sample of a huge, national pandemic

- People join and leave the forum regularly so we are unable to determine how successful they were in abstaining

- Nobody is obligated to be 100% honest and nobody else can prove otherwise

I'm not belittling the value of the forum as it is a great place for support and trade ideas but, as a research tool, it is fundementally flawed. I am sure there are stories to support the success and failure of most strategies and, taken on face value alone, total abstience has been the route to suceess for a number of posters on here and that's great. This isn't to say other strategies can't work for different people which is why it is important to take advice from others but also from yourself.

I made a point in an earlier post as to the differences between a 'problem' gambler and a 'compulsive' one. Is there a mindset where you will gamble on virtually anything to get that 'hit'? Is there, likewise, an habitual habit where the process of betting/gambling is so engrained in your life that you can't imagine going without it? Most importantly, can habitual gamblers recover by changing their routines etc.

For example, to look at a different addiction, there is a guy I know who, without fail, goes into the local pub at 6pm, drinks 2 pints and then goes home, doesn't drink any more, doesn't drink at home. Technically, he would class as a 'problem' drinker but is he the same as an alcoholic who, if they couldn't have their beer at the pub, would go home and drink instead. Would this man, as an example, were he able to break this habit, be able to have a glass of wine at home without the risk of a replapse? I appreciate that someone suffering from acute alcoholism (who will drink anything, usually the cheapest, just to get their hit) could never have 'just a pint' without a severe risk of relapse but what about the habitual drinker, once that habit is broken, will a disassociated drink necessarily cause a problem.

My second point is this. We often use the expressions "One day at a time", "Today I will not gamble" and variants. The main reason to do this is that, particularly in the early days, the idea of 'never gambling again' can seem particularly daunting. People may not (or may not want to) envisage going the rest of their lives without a gamble which, in turn, will weaken their resolve and potentially lead to a relapse or giving up entirely. The idea of ODAAT, make the process seem less of an impossible challenge and doesn't say "you will never gamble again" although, in reality, this is the goal. Can the same be said for 'controlled gambling'? My problem was slots (fobt/awps) but I also bet on football and darts but to a much reduced degree (they weren't my 'problem' aspect). When I decided that 'enough was enough' I decided that I would still allow myself a couple of small football bets on a weekend and a bet on the Premier League of darts (which starts on Thursday...happy days!). This, I suppose, would be somewhere towards the 'thin end' of the wedge. The idea that I wasn't 'giving up everything' made the process of quitting the slots a lot easier, much in the same way that ODAAT makes it seem more manageable. I am of the honest belief that I COULD have a small football/darts bet and it wouldn't drive me back to my old ways, to date, however, I haven't. So, could the idea of 'controlled gambling' (whether or not it works long-term) actually help kick-start a recovery for anyone who would quickly give up on complete abstinence.

I will say it again, as I did before, I am merely adding to the discussion and am not looking to 'justify' any further form of gambling.

Guys lighten up please? We are all here for the same reason - or I like to think so. The moderators always emphasise about getting personal which I think most of us have been guilty of but I think maybe this might have reached a point of "agree to disagree"?

So which one won the ketchup or mayonnaise?

Asking for a freind

Why not both...Call it 'fusion'?

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Personally I believe a compulsive gambler can never control it, just like an ex smoker can never have just the one cigerette without then thinking about it for days after

Hi

The recovery program is a way of us learning how unhealthy I was but more important how I could heal and become whole and healthy once more.

The recovery program helped me face and reduce my fears and live a full productive life.

There was a time I thought and felt that life was boring and today there are not enough hours in the day, I do know that the world did not change for me, but I have in fact became motivated in much healthier ways today.

By writing down my needs, writing down my wants, and writing down my goals I was going to extend myself in so many ways.

By writing down things I am getting more focused on things in my life.

By writing down things I am getting more clarity and understand setting best sequences to get things done.

Because of my fears and nervousness lack of confidence and low self esteem I found it hard to stay focused on one thing at a time.

The gambling establishments were places I went to escape when I was emotional vulnerable and could not cope with people life and situations.

Long before my addictions and my obsessions I was risk taking, I was stealing, I was not being honest and open.

My addictions and obsessions were fear based issues.

My control issues were fear based issues.

The addictions and obsessions were a form of escaping in my fears, the addictions and obsessions were a symptom that I was emotionally vulnerable.

When I went to the addictions and obsessions were a way of me escaping in my fears from people life and situations I could not cope with emotionally.

I use to be a very vulnerable volatile person, I was so unstable my family use to fear me and mistrust me.

Every promise was a waste of time, I could not believe in myself, low self esteem, inadequate insecure inept, sadly I was unable to love other people because I did not love myself, I was unable to respect other people because I did not respect myself.

My emotional triggers were my pains not healed. My emotional triggers were my fears not faced.

My emotional triggers were my frustrations due to my unreasonable expectations of people life and situations. By me having unreasonable expectations of people life and situations I was effect causing myself pains time and time again.

My emotional triggers were my feelings of loneliness due to my fears of emotional intimacy. My emotional triggers were my feelings of being bored. I can be honest today with out being cruel or adversely affecting other people. I can embrace change towards healthy habits today.

My unhealthy reactions to people life and situations indicated that my hurt inner child was not healed.

My unhealthy reactions in anger, resentments, impatience intolerance, jealous, envy, rage, lack of trust, guilt shame regret remorse penance person pleasing vengeance mistrust self worth low self esteem indicate that I am not fully healthy and not at serenity with myself today.

In time I would open up in the recovery program, I would open up to counseling talking about every conscious memory of my past.

Is it healthy to live in fear today.

Is it healthy to try and regulate and control other people today.

Is it healthy to try and avoid healthy interactions today.

How important is it to show my gratitude and appreciation today.

Is showing my gratitude and appreciation an expression of my healthy values today.

Is showing my gratitude and appreciation an expression of how much people mean to me today.

As I accept the serenity prayer I am accepting my boundaries and the boundaries of other people today.

Do I think today that I could control my vulnerability today.

Or do I think today that I can heal my vulnerability today.

Please keep going to meetings, you will benefit from it in so many ways.

Love and peace to every one.

Dave L

AKA Dave of Beckenham

in my opinion if you have at any point been a compulsive gambler or ever thiught you had a problem and are quitting dont gamble in any shape or form because what happens when you win ? so you only ever had a problem with slots you quit slots and start football betting coz u can "control" it right WRONG when you win youll love it that dopamine hits again and u love the football like the slots in my opinion to be in recovery is to forget the lotto scratch cards everything you never did and every thing you did regarding gambling and focus on recovery thats what im doing 

A few years ago I tried "controlled gambling" and it didn't work for me.  I would set a limit on how much I would gamble with for that day and I went on one of two paths:

Path A- I would start out by winning some. In hindsight, this turned out to be the worst thing that could happen to me. I would get the gambling fever, think I was invincible and gamble more and more until I lost the lot.

Path B- I would start out by losing. This was bad too. I would bet more and higher to try to recover my losses. 

So, the end result was always the same- losses. 

As far as I'm concerned, controlled gambling is a myth.