Why You Souldn't Blame Yourself

Skeptic1981 wrote:

[quote=Cynical wife]

You don't control your brain chemistry but that's no excuse for not controlling your responses. Where does responsibility for your own actions and choices lie if not with you?

Forgive me if this is my last reply here for a while.

As I've mentioned, nothing I've said is an excuse. We don't control our responses as they are determined by brain chemistry, neurons firing, synapses, genetic predispositions etc. We can go back to proximate causes of behaviour, but simply saying you did something just because you wanted to doesn't answer why you did it. It only pushes the question back further, why did you do it? Why did you want to?

If you ignore those key elements of behaviour then how can you possibly make a successful recovery?

A more logical arguement is the chemicals produced are created by our choices. Would you argue a serial killer is blameless based on the chemicals in their head or maybe its the choices they make based on environment, nurture & life experiences. If you want to make an assumption on nihilistic principles that nothing we can do on a sentient plane will make a difference, then i differ. You see the people on this site all the time who have youre mindset, nothing they think they can do will make a difference.. So they do nothing & come back time & time again bemoaning how hard this is for them. Its hard because they buy into your theory theyre doomed, that this is their lot, theres nothing that can change. Others, take responsibility for their actions, they change what needs to change, through CHOICE.

A recovering gambling addict website mentioning child abusers? Come on Dan - you know better than that?

Whats your point Phil. The original text stated we were not accountable for anything we do, its all chemicals. Ergo nothing is anybodys fault & nothing anybody does is wrong, its our destiny, we are powerless over any thought or urge?

I get what you are saying Dan but the context of the forum is about gambling? I'm not having a go at you but I think we need to focus on the reasons we are here and I think mentioning child molestors isn't appropriate? Phil.

Id agree in general Phil, but the poster is championing the theory that everything is pre- ordained by our chemicals, which is frankly nonsrnse. Its a very comfortable mindset for an addict to buy into as it means its not their responsibility to try & fix it.

OK I get what you're saying.

I think I quite like the OP's post. I don't think he's saying that we have no control over our actions - if he is then I disagree.

But the idea of pure free will is something of an illusion as we are constrained by our past experiences and view of the world (and I'll take Sam Harris' word on it for the chemical stuff which goes over my head - but I REALLY like Sam Harris so trust him).

We can change - ocassionally we can transform, but often the change isn't as substantial and enduring as we'd like. But we can change.

In reality we are governed a lot by our emotions and self-identity. But if we move towards values-based actions, then we move towards exercising real choice. If you choose right now to do one small thing, which is line with your values, but taking you genuinely outside of your comfort zone, then there is a greater degree of choice being exercised.

I agree we shouldn't 'blame' ourselves - as we're usually trying our best to cope in that moment. There's really no point in beating ourselves up. That person is still us - there's a contiuam and even if you stop gambling for 20 years - you're still the same you as the innocent 3 year old toddler, who 35 years ago stared up at a camera.

Yes Skeptic is not saying that its a black and white issue of taking no responsibility. Of course we have to take responsibility because nobody else gambled for us. Some are getting offended that it is making excuses but its simply a good idea to try and understand the power of the brain to go wrong in setting neuron paths and seeking chemical surges.

You are you but you can fight for control in your own body. Depression and all sorts of things can alter your chemical balance to create an addiction and mental illness.

Skeptic is simply pointing out that we are a blob of chemical consciousness and all we have is our consciousness when the body is alive and functioning on any level.

Skeptic is saying that its far too simplistic to say I did it cos I wanted to. In my view we did it despite not really wanting to which is the form of mind control that must be understood

There are whole books on addiction but its perhaps too much depth to be going into on a recovery forum until people want to seek that information

Whether it helps is up to the individual. We do rely on the sound advice of time, location and money. The advice works but if someone wants to read up on the real complexity of addiction, that's fine.

Im not more intelligent or above any of you and I read pages that I find hard to digest. I seek to make some sense of why I kept gambling and gambling to extinction. There was simply nothing rational about doing it again and again with the same devasting result. Its clear that there was more going on than wanting to win and I wanted to understand that as clearly as possible. I am open to interesting debate

Best wishes to everyone on the forum.

Sam Harris's words have made a good point, so will share my point https://youtu.be/66cYcSak6nE..

Also open to interesting debate. So, sharing someone's thoughts in a long winded opening post isn't something this simple man would deem as a debate. So, not dismissing, just skeptical

Agreed volcano and there are some great videos on You Tube.

The first post was long winded but worth a read and the thread title was interesting. I knew it was long winded and thought blimey what are the members going to think of that.

Anway I have also been addicted to shopping as mentioned in the video. What is an empty life? Ive had an empty life and have tried to fill it with the wrong substitutes for happiness I like to think a nice girlfriend or family life would fulfilled me as a person but some people have relationships and it didnt stop them gambling compulsively.

I am doing some volunteering work at the moment which I quite enjoy. I am going through a lot of circumstancial downers with my counsellor at the moment. I wonder how much my gambling was a cry for help because I couldnt really afford to rent anywhere decent or set up my own business.

All the best

I also agree with OP that it is not purely the gambler's fault. There are certain factors that affect people, causing them to find comfort in things like gambling. And I think that is why we are here. To get help with reversing the damages those factors made.

Hi

The recovery program was going to help me heal my hurt inner child.

The addictions and obsessions were a form of escaping in my fears, the addictions and obsessions were a symptom that I was emotionally vulnerable.

Every painful event and trauma in my life had consequences on me and my development, I suffered emotional abuse, I suffered physical abuse, I suffered sexual abuse, I suffered neglect and abandonment, I suffered humiliation and put down, I suffered all kind of bullying and manipulations.

Was I a victim in my life, yes for sure, was I a perpetrator in my life, yes for sure, was I a rescuer in my life yes for sure, for me today all of these are very unhealthy habits.

Why was it that I was always picked on and by who, the reason I was picked on was because I was very emotionally vulnerable, the people who picked on me were in fact victims them selves who never healed from the pains of their past.

The consequences of having suffered so many pains in my life was a build up of fears that I did not understand or recognize, also I was going to build high walls of fear around me to protect that hurt little child, sadly those high walls of fear around me were going to stop me getting out and having healthy intimate relationships with other people.

Please keep going to meetings, you will benefit from it in so many ways.

Love and peace to every one.

Dave L

AKA Dave of Beckenham