Bankruptcy and the self employed

Hello Stressedparent

Welcome to the forum.

This is a great place to learn about gambling addiction for you and your son.

Regarding your question, I think Citizens Advice would be in the best position to provide you with a definitive answer.

Best wishes

Glint

OK thanks people. Probably in the common place where he won't admit he has a problem, so won't call dept advisory places like StepChange with me, and they can't allocate me an advisor without his consent and account details. Catch 22. Will go back to CA and see if they can give me more advice on the bankruptcy option. Son is pressurising me to take out a loan to pay off att his high interest debts in one go, so he can pay me a more monthly managable amount. Everything person I speak to, and every bit of advice I seem to read screams 'don't do it'. Hence I need to see what the other options are for him, and bankruptcy may be the best/only option.

Thanks again.

Hi Stressedparent....sorry to hear about what you are going through with your son. Being a cg is no fun but for family its just as bad.

As you said every bit of advice suggests you shouldnt take a loan out for him and I need to back that up.....it will be the worst thing you can do for your son. If he hasnt admitted he has a problem then he hasnt hit rock bottom and if you help him he wont get any better. If he is anything like I was he will plead with you, cry and then probably get angry and blame you for all his issues. As it has been suggested read through some of the stories on here and especially in the friends and family section, you will get excellent advice.

I wish you and your son well for the future.

Thanks ITD,

This is just what I want to be hearing from the CG's perspective, it is giving me the conviction I'm doing the right thing. Still feel awful for not addressing his immediate anxiety, but absolutely everything on here and elsewhere I have read and researched says do not bail him out.

He has got angry and abusive, probably due to the fact his mother has buckled and just settled up in the past.

Some of his debts are up for repayment tomorrow, could be a key time for him to finally admit he needs more than mum or dad handouts, we'll see? I've tried reasoning with him, but he just comes back with the old, you help me out here, and I promise I'm finished with gambling.

Thanks again, and hope you are recovered, or at least well on the way to recovery.

Hi Stressedparent

Welcome to the forum. I'm sorry to hear about what you're going through at the moment.

I can see you've already had some great responses from forum members. Remember though that posts here are the opinions of the authors of the posts and aren't to be taken as qualified debt advice. As others have said, Citizens Advice, Business Debtline or similar would be in a better position to give advice on debt.

Coping with a family member who has a gambling addiction will no doubt present many challenges along the way so do keep in touch on this forum. I've copied your post to the 'Family & Friends' section as you should receive even more responses that way.

All the best

Laura

Thanks Laura, yes some tough times ahead I fear 🙁

Hi

You can only make the decision after plenty of advice and sitting down with a financial plan.

In my opinion there is no way you should take out a loan. In this situation and gambling related its dangerous. Its got to come to a head and if he is still working there will be an arrangement to pay 20p in every pound for example.

Im afraid that its a life lesson. Gamblers will often think oh I can get a loan or reschedule things...until it all gets too much.

The CAB are very helpful in these matters

I can assure you that there is life after bankruptcy and life goes on.

At the moment you will both be scared and the reality may cause his angry outbursts. Plenty of advice and the fog lifts. A consolidation loan could be the answer but not from you. Now is the time for real financial advice

There is no point making you both ill over debts. Its a calculated risk the lenders take especially if they are unsecured loans.

It is something you have to be very clear about because it will affect his credit rating.

I know its difficult but gambling can be beaten with the right help and support. Its crucial that he stops and is seen to prove himself again

I wish you all the very best

Thanks Joydivider.

Everyone avenue of advice so far has said NOT to get a loan on his behalf, and I have made the conscious decision now I won't be doing that.

I don't believe we are at the bankruptcy stage yet, but I somehow have to convince him he needs to set up a debt management plan with StepChange from what advice I have gleaned so far, and more importantly to get him to seek help for his addiction.

Hi, SP,

You know the one about horses and water? You can encourage him to get help but you can't make him. If he sees that he needs it, all good, point him in the right direction. If not, don't take it on as your problem and make yourself ill over it. Look after yourself.

CW

Hi...not related to self employed or bankruptcy....but from a compulsive gambler....I do not want any friends or family to repay my gambling debts....I need and want to do that....what I do want and need is there willingness to support me ..not rant and rave...that will only make me shrivel up and undo all the good I've done so far...to treat me as a person ....I've got everything in place to beat this vile addiction....and am confident with there support I can do this xx

Stressedparent wrote:

Thanks Joydivider.

Everyone avenue of advice so far has said NOT to get a loan on his behalf, and I have made the conscious decision now I won't be doing that.

I don't believe we are at the bankruptcy stage yet, but I somehow have to convince him he needs to set up a debt management plan with StepChange from what advice I have gleaned so far, and more importantly to get him to seek help for his addiction.

Yes he must stop gambling and he must move out of that phase where he is still in denial. The anger really is reality kicking in and he will be confused that he really wasnt in control mixed with a bit of guilt and shame

As part of your discussions try and get him to rationalise what he has done in the cold light of day. No compulsive gambler can rationise it because its an addiction and an illness. It actually sounds plain silly when I tried to explain what I used to do. It would almost be laughable if it didnt cause so much debt and financial pain to sort out

It is quite a complex issue and many factors including depression, boredom , lack of self esteem and self destruction all play into seeking that escape or high. The money is part of it but it often isnt the most important factor. It is an issue of the mind controlling the body for its own chemical pleasures. I dont think many people understand the complexity of that

Ask him to join here and we will all discuss it with him

There is life away from gambling and its a great feeling.

There is no shame in him finally asking for help. Its more of a manly thing to do than pretending its ok and hes one of the lads in the gambling crowd.

I know you will both sort it out because he has great help and emotional support with people like you.

My best wishes to you both

Its frustrating to hear that a parent/spouse has the ability to get a CG to stop gambling. Yes if they are at their rock bottom and ready to accept support and help but when they are in denial you are just being set up for more lies and manipulation. Can I also add that nothing hurts more than being a parent of a gambling addict and hearing that it "will get sorted because he has great help and emotional support". I can't speak for everyone but I tried everything I could think of/afford to help "sort" this and almost had a breakdown trying. Then one day I realized "we" not him had hit our rock bottom. We had other kids, friends, work, and lives that had been ignored and put on hold while we tried to deal with a son that was so entrenched in addiction he couldn't even hear what we were saying. Interestlingly enough about six months later my son decided his life had become unmanageable and began his own recovery for himself.

You didn't cause it, you can't control it , and you can't cure it.

Hi, SP,

I wouldn't advise you to pay even the short term trading creditors. It has the same effect as taking out the longer term loan - it protects him from consequences. What happens next time he's gambled away the money due to his suppliers? And the next? And the one after that? Unchecked, it will add up and you won't see the money repaid to you, CGs can have alarming short term memory loss.

Encourage him to help himself via GA, counselling and StepChange but don't take on his problem. If he doesn't see, then he doesn't see and you have to cope with your reaction to him not seeing, you can't make him see. The policy of GA is not to intervene, their help works best when sought by the gambler and there's nothing that anyone can do to force it.

Move the focus over to you and keep it there, get all the support you need to cope.

Take care,

CW

Amom wrote:

Its frustrating to hear that a parent/spouse has the ability to get a CG to stop gambling. Yes if they are at their rock bottom and ready to accept support and help but when they are in denial you are just being set up for more lies and manipulation. Can I also add that nothing hurts more than being a parent of a gambling addict and hearing that it "will get sorted because he has great help and emotional support". I can't speak for everyone but I tried everything I could think of/afford to help "sort" this and almost had a breakdown trying. Then one day I realized "we" not him had hit our rock bottom. We had other kids, friends, work, and lives that had been ignored and put on hold while we tried to deal with a son that was so entrenched in addiction he couldn't even hear what we were saying. Interestlingly enough about six months later my son decided his life had become unmanageable and began his own recovery for himself.

You didn't cause it, you can't control it , and you can't cure it.

Yes I hear what you are saying and you are not wrong. However stressedparent has posted and needs to know that there is a possibility of a way out.

I think a family member can be a great help if they know what they are dealing with. I didnt want to come over as too bleak about it. I think stressedparent understands that its not going to be easy. I think a family member can set up the conditions and trust to at least talk about it. Maybe the gambler wouldnt talk and open up to anybody else

Yes the gambler may just be saying anything to get a loan and stressedparent does need to know the power of a gambling addiction.

Yes the gambler must be ready to stop

However there is proper help vs the sort of non understanding help. My family never understood years ago and just considered I needed to man up and stop wasting money. I was crying out for help. I was lonely, depressed and self destructive. I actually saw no point to life than other than escaping the cold grey streets for the flashing lights. Even in summer it seemed cold and grey if you know how depression eats away at people. My family were shocked by the money wasted and that was their main focus. I cant blame them for that. They are nice people but they didnt fully understand. If my predilection had been class A drugs or alchohol thats what I would have been doing instead to escape. The crazy thing is that the two latter examples often get more sympathy than gambling . Gambling is just as dangerous if not more so.

I understand what you are saying but I didnt just want to say that to stressedparent. I do believe emotional support has a strong role as long as the gambler is open to admitting the compulsive behaviour and seeking support. I agree that all the love in the world wont necessarily stop someone who is angry and in denial.

At what point does stressed gambler just want to see people saying its up to the gambler and distance yourself. Yes protect yourself but have all the information to help as much as possible

I credit stressedparent with knowing more about their relationship than obviously we do. Stressedparent now knows not to get a loan.

Im just trying to be positive for stressedparent. Im not being naive as I do understand that the gambler has to want to stop. I now think stressedparent fully realises this and can help accordingly