Help me help my brother

Thers a flaw in the logic there.

From the outside view here, gamblers dont gamble because they are in debt, they are in debt because they gamble.

I think that it does more to restore self esteem in the recovering gambler if they can deal with the financial problem directly themselves rather than have someone take over and solve it for them. My experience is the gamblers are emotionally very immature and need the catalyst of dealing with their own problems to start the growing up process and move on, every time you take the parent role and make their lives all nice for them again, you deny them that chance to stand on their own two feet and unfortuantely my own experience and the shared experiences i have heard at gam anon, say that bailing a gambler out gives them a false sense of safety, which leads to them doing it again.

Mr P took every bailing out hand out he could manipulate out of people, the last round of debts, there was no one to bail us out, literally nothing, we had to do what people have to do in those situations, talk with a charity like stepchange, gets things arranged so that we can still live as a family while slowly paying this off, and i mean slowly, over a decade before we will be debt free and in all honesty, i dont want that time to come. Every week of payment is a week of rebuilding and a reminder that we can never go back to that state again.

Gamblers live in a fantasy world where everything is going to be easier than the real world that the rest of us have to struggle with, as long as people are around to save them, they can live that fantasy, if they choose recovery and slowly joining the real world, it is a painful journey for them, but they arrive with humility and gentleness that only people who have had a really tough experience can show and are an absolute blessing to everyone they care about. I dont condemn gamblers, they didnt chose to be that way, but i throughly advocate being tough on them, because the rewards of fighting this are immense and the consequences of denial are too awful to accept.

Sorry rant over, tough week at Pangolin towers, kettle on.....

Hi

I totally agree with Pangolin , bailing them out does not help, it makes matters worse if anything.

My son got himself into thousands of pounds worth of debt, and was still desperately trying to get more when we stepped in to try and help him sort it , I wish we had never done it. A debt management plan was set up with a charity and I was the one who did that for him, he was so scared and in such a state I thought I was doing the right thing. Initially it seemed like the answer, he was very relieved and so were we, he promised to get help and I thought this was his rock bottom, but that wasnt the case.

Fast forward to now and he's defaulted on his debt management plan and believe me the charity has tried very hard to get him back on track but none of its worked. Hes back now to owing all these companies a lot of money and hes still getting more credit -, dont know how with his credit history but he is. When all of his debts were taken out he used our address so all of his post comes here and any debt collectors that are constantly threatening him will come here, its only a matter of time before that happens.

As Pangolin said they live in a fantasy world, my son is delusional and blames everything that is wrong in his life on me and my husband. I know my son is still gambling, still stealing from friends (doubt theyre friends now) and manipulating people to get what he wants, he is nowhere near ready to get help. He runs away from all the damage he's done, both financial and emotional and he needs to face the consequences of his actions other wise I doubt he wll ever change. If he doesnt have to see what hes done in his world it doesnt exsist so he just continues spiralling further down.

Our son is not on our lives and hates us with a passion, in hindsight theres lots of things we could of done differntly but I can say with certainty if we could only ever of done one thing different if would of been never to of bailed him out, Im sure that would of been the game changer.. Dont ever give a gambler money, no matter what story they tell you, believe me we've heard some good ones, they must face their debts themselves or they wont change.

Thank you to everyone. This has really helped me not feel alone and this week my brother has arranged counselling and I have spoken to Gamcare and arranged counselling for myself which I am hoping will also be useful for the rest of our family. The loan I gave him doesn't sort him out completely but he has told me what he was able to pay off with it and I have looked into debt management plans and we are going to go through his finances to get this sorted.
The pressure of the debts he has does not stop the gambling as so many of you have said. The guilt of borrowing from me is eating him up and therefore he needs to know that I support him however small the monthly payments back to me will be.
We both have our first counselling next week and I am hoping that what I learn from this will help me not only support him but his wife too when he tells her.
I am so pleased that he has been able to confide in me and will now stand by him 100% with whatever the next few days, months and years bring.

I also have to disagree with the logic of helping with the debt. He HAD help with his debt the first time from his parents and is back in the same position ... so it didn't help!

Worried sister I know this is very hard for you and you rightly feel that your brother is a wonderful brother, husband , father but unfortunately he is a compulsive gambler. Like Pangolin says he didn't choose it but thats the reality. I do agree with H-L in that it is time that he handled ALL of the fallout from his actions! He is a grown man that got himself in this predicament and needs to do the work to get himself out. We all want to help our gamblers but unfortunately that just keeps this roller coaster going.

I also agree with the not helping with debt comments above.
I speak from experience - I borrowed money from family a couple of years ago which cleared half my debt and left me with enough to live and pay back both family and the other debt pretty comfortably. After about a year on the wagon I fell off horrendously, gambled it all away and filled up more credit cards with debt.
As I'd cleared some credit off my bank kindly tripled my allowed credit and I couldn't resist using it and I guess my credit score had improved as I got more credit offers in the post...
To try and keep it short I'm in a far worse position now I wish they'd never helped, they aren't aware that I've done this and I'm dealing with my myself this time. I think it's the only way, to face your own mess, realise what you've done and take responsibility. That's what I'm trying to do now anyway.

Hi to all

I couldn't handle my finances at all. I had tried suicide to avoid facing the mess My gambling had caused. Call me weak if you like, but for me it was best that I didn't have the stress of the knowledge of how much of a mess I was in. I was in no state to face it. I didn't open any mail for about 6 months or so. The mail, ( mainly bills or demands ), was just handed over to the person who was doing my finances for me.

I think at this stage it is best to just get a plan in place, the sooner the better. The sooner this is organised, the sooner everyone can settle down a bit and concentrate fully on the recovery process.

Best wishes

I'm maybe the only one who thinks u did best by helping him financially. Without support to back it up then maybe it's futile, but why make him suffer even more than he is already If as family your in a position to help? All be it a selfish one, it's an illness all the samE. I just Know that for me personally I gambled to pay bills. If someone could take that need a way then the battle was half won x.

Wal I think thats fair comment, some guidance with the administration of the problem, some help to get a routing going with paying these things off, this is sensible help, but you have still payed the debts yourself and stuck to the plan, what more can be asked really, its excellent.

Mr P was very much like you, he was overwhelmed by the mess, as his wife I needed to have some control over what was going on, i was overwhelmed too by the extent of my ignorance, but as I say, there was no one to pay the debts but him, I had a new baby and i wasnt going to go back to work and not do what i felt i needed to do as a mum just because of his problems. I am a bit of a control freak when i t comes to the money, but Mr P knows its him paying back every penny, slowly but surely, its part of his recovery.

I agree there is some help you can give that will have a positive effect for someone who wants to recover.

New name new.... your debts did not make you gamble, "normal" people do not think of gambling as a way of resolving debts, but this is a brilliant starting point for you, get plenty of opinions on this, counsellors, CGs, partners, talk it through, it takes some people years to get to the point like this with their addiction, confront that belief head on.

Thankyou pangolin. I know I'm heading In the right direction By being hEre and other people's posts advice and diarys do help.

I Know exactly wot u mean by normal peoples minds and I.know as a compulsive gambler that I'm not wired up properly!!.

I also know that gambling got me into debt, will not get me out and it's wrong. But once the debt had already been Created and I could get no credit from anywhere else I have often felt that gambling was my only option. Iv gone on gambling sprees when I felt sick at the thought and didn't want to even be there, but felt I had no option. If I had had my finances in order I wouldnt have done it. Sometimes it actually worked but those times where I made enough to honour my commitments only drove me to try it again and of course I would lose. It's a vicious circle and that's why I strongly believe we will never recover until we have firm plans in place to cover our debts and outgoings. Of course this won't solve it but it's a massive stepping stone. I don't mean having access to more credit I just mean not being under pressure to find money we haven't got x

Hi new name new start

There is nothing wrong in consolidating all debts into a large one that is easier and less costly to pay off. I consolidated the debts of 7 credit cards into the mortgage on the house. I still had a good relationship with the mortgager of my house. The other creditors were always chasing money, money I thouight I just didn't have, so I wasn't on good terms with them.

Work out your budget, what you have to pay to your creditors. If you can't pay what they expect and still be able to buy food and rent etc.,then you will have to work on a debt management plan.There are agencies that will be able to help you do this. DON'T borrow more money. You will only get yourself deeper into the hole, and put yourself under more pressure.

Best wishes

Organisations like stepchange can be really helpful for dealing with those companies you owe money to and sorting out your payments, there are always more options than you think and most of them are going to be less stressful financially and emotionally than gambling and/ or running up mpre debts, you just need to get the right advice, and you are now.

Thanku both for Ur advice. I was more speaking about past experience. This time around (off the wagon for a year nd half) I have managed to recognise the problem hopefully before it got as bad as b4. In comparison to some my debt isn't that bad and was mostly payday loans. I have put these on arrangement and should be debt free again in less than a year...although all be it with a terrible credit score. The money I was "chasing" this time was a few hundred pounds I owed family and friends and bcos I couldn't face admitting I'd started again and couldn't get finance anywhere else iv spent a good 2 months trying to gamble it back. It's ridiculous and at one point I was suicidal at only of course making it worse. Today I'm back on track. Everyone knows everything and I'm in a position where I can pay wot needs paying and still have money left over. I now have no excuse to gamble and I need to prove that this was my only reason for doing it. If I post again that iv gambled then I am the biggest failure on here and I don't think I could actually face coming back. I'm one of the lucky ones this time around but I can't be complacent x

Really found reading this all interesting and I thank you all for supporting people like me. I've had a good week and felt much better for beginning to face up to what I've done. Your all right I'm a grown man and must 'man up' and deal with this, I know many of you have been heavily hurt and impacted by CG' s but would just say like everyone else we aren't all identical and some stories have gone to make me feel sick. In any other aspect of life I'd like to think I'm someone you'd actually look to as honest, hard working , loving and have most definitely helped more people in my life than had to have people support me. Tomorrow I'll go to work and before my first counselling session ( after work ) most likely help at least one person in a positive way. Not all CG' s are deceitful , stealing whatever's we just find ourselves in a position of weakness and this is mine, I won't play it down as other than alcohol or drug abuse I think it has the worst consequences in many cases.

Katiecola your advise I particularly take on board and know that soon I will have to let my wife know. I have done this before and it was hard but she was supportive and I hope she is again. I just need to get myself through the next bit and then get to this. My worst fear is her thinking I didn't want her to know, I go to bed every night wanting to tell her but at the moment can't find the words, I will as the lies is what really hurts not the money.

I agree that the lies are often worse than the money and well done for taking steps to start putting this right.

I think most of us if not all are decent respectable people in "real life". And like you, work colleagues and people on the outside would be shocked at the destruction iv caused.

I don't mean to sound rude but your post sort of indicates that your not as bad as some on here. I think that's a dangerous assumption to make although I do get you.
Iv read some people's stories and actually thought myself lucky. But at the end of the day we are all the same. Just some of us have saw the light and sought help before it's to late. You have already been deceitful, and you may not have stole but I truly believe u would have if this had gone on and u had no other access to money.

It's fab that you have support and are tackling this and I hope u find the strength to tell your wife.

Good luck in all that comes next and keep us updated x

Hi new name new start

Whatever happens, please do come back. Busts aren't inevitable, but they do happen. Don't feel embarrassed about it. You will only be a failure if you give up on your recovery.

Hi this is so tough.

I do agree that not all CGs have the same traits. However most do lie, deceive, hurt family, and at least think about stealing, if not do it. When I tell my story at GA, or listen to other stories, I often see nods of agreement around the table from the other members. We are very similar.

I do hope that your counselling session goes well. Be honest and open, and I'm sure you will get benefit from the experience.

Best wishes