How to make amends

Hi CW, just popped by to thank you for the kind post you left for me , it was greatly appreciated .

I know you've had a tough time of things and have obviously been deeply hurt by the past actions of your husband's gambling problems and how this has affected your family unit .

Please dont take this the wrong way when I say that , perhaps it may help to back off a bit ? I'd noticed when I first came on to this forum that your post's to other recovering CG's were quite blunt, angry and at times quite harsh , I feel this was obviously as a response to the way you felt at the time due to the position you had been left in ?.

It really does sound as if you husband is trying to make ammends for the hurt he's caused you , he seems to be doing what he needs to be doing in terms of GA and all the blocks being in place , if he feel's that all his efforts to put thing right are having no effect and that your not prepared to , maybe not forgive but at least recognise his efforts it might all be in vain anyway ?.

I know this is not all about him and that you are the victim in this along with your kids but it may be worth just easing off a notch and see if it helps ?.

Just toi end on a good note , I have noticed your post's becoming much more sympathetic over the last few weeks so well done for that ! . Were not all monsters and really don't mean to hurt other's when we do what we do, we really cannot help ourselves until that eureka moment , when we suddenly realise what weve become, trouble is it's usually when the damage has been done .

Thank you again and I hope thing's improve for you .

Best Wishes ............................ALAN

Hi, Alan,

Thanks for your post. I hear what you say and yes, I think your comments about my posts contain more accurate insight than I'm comfortable with i.e. you're right.

With regards to my husband's behaviour, though, I don't accept what you say, sorry. That's a respectful disagreement, not an aggressive rebuttal.

I work and earn the same as him, he was the sole wage earner when the kids were small but not now, not for quite a few years. I juggle the commitments and the childcare whilst he works full time. But in recent years, he was gambling his salary whilst I was paying for everything and jumping through hoops to finance it. And the family time lost? Balvaird's got the right idea. Putting the house in my name goes some way to making amends but it doesn't address the sheer injustice of the gambling.

I've thought all along that he's never really understood the damage he's done, the impact that he's had and still has, on us. There's never been that change in attitude reported elsewhere. To quote more emotive language used recently by my youngest, he stole from his own children. And that episode in the bank (actually there were two, at first we thought we must have the wrong account number), for my eldest, in the middle of "A" levels, the impact on him? His dip in results was not, as my husband thinks, solely the consequence of not working hard enough earlier on.

My husband making an effort now to pay it back - it'll take a him a while - is positive but it's only part of what's required to achieve real recovery. He has made progress, he's abstaining, he's handed over financial control, I have the house, not easy, all credit to him, all good. But stopping there is stopping short. He needs, to quote one of our teenagers, to do the "emotional stuff". And without it, he has the same addict's mindset, the same unreasonableness and mood swings, that I have found so difficult all along. The broken watch, no tickets? These are not necessary or helpful sacrifices.

I am angry, a sincere heartfelt apology - or three - would make me less so. Even with my obsession with money, financial isn't everything. We need to be able to love and respect him - and he needs to earn it. His present addict's mindset is preventing that, hence my current difficulties. The children are showing increasing signs of distress, school results aren't all they should be, a couple of outbreaks of aggression. I can't leave it.

CW

Hi again, I am begining to understand your frustration at not getting him to let down his guard and let the emotional side of things come out , as you say it's one thing to deal with the basics of the problem but if the other issues aren't being addressed then nothing is being resolved , and I agree that without love and respect for someone it makes it difficult to have any sort of foundation to build on and ultimately move forward . Is he someone who would show an emotional side, either in public or privately ? , if not maybe he see's that as weakness or not the manly thing to do ?, I'm sorry I 'm clutching at straws a bit here trying to understand his logic , so the lord knows how you must feel !.

The only other thing I feel able to comment on is you saying that " He stole from his children " , I think we are all as CG's guilty of that one , my kids didn't go without they both attended fee paying schools we had holidays and the money and attention was there when they needed anything but having said that , I suppose you could argue that any time or money given to the bookie's should rightly have been my children's and I couldn't really disagree with that but I still don't feel as though I'd stolen anything from them !. Or maybe that's just the mentality of a CG ?.

And please feel free to disagree with me whenever you wish , you have every right and I never take offence !

Regards Alan

Hi, Alan,

Thanks for your posts, your input is appreciated. As you say, the issue isn't just the money, which is being addressed, it's the addict behaviour, the unreasonableness, the mood swings. The lies.

Unfortunately, the "stolen from his own children" wasn't just my husband's time and energy. In the early years, he supported us whilst gambling, amid complaints of my extravagance and telling me that I need to go back to work after the babies. As the gambling progressed, he moved from paper bank statements to on line statements, to which I had no access. He cleared out their savings then insisted that their accounts, for which he was the signatory, were none of my business. Ditto his own bank account. My eldest found out the hard way when he came of age and went into the bank to sort out his finances before uni. My husband knew that the bank trip was planned and tried to put our son off, telling him to focus on exams, he didn't have time to go to the bank, he could sort that out afterwards...When asked what had happened to the missing savings, my husband said the money had been moved but was safe...my son wanted to believe this so badly, so did I, but eventually the lies unraveled after I got my son to obtain his historic bank statements.

It's a lot to get over, I'm trying!!! The harsh reality is that it's impossible to stay with him without the soul searching / working the Steps / therapy. We're all affected. And in this situation, compromise (I'll stop gambling and pay back what I took but no Steps) isn't appropriate.

BW,

CW

HI CW, Reading back what youv'e just told me , I can fully understand why you would expect some emotion from him , I think if I'd lied and blatently lied to my son regarding where the money was , I'd proberbly be crawling over broken glass to make amends to him , I find that really strange behaviour to understand and it must have broke your son up knowing his father had lied . It could be resolved if he were to as you say show a bit of emotion but even if this were to be , there would still be a lot of forgiving to do and the longer this doesn't happen I guess the harder it's gonna be to repair ?.

How about a threat or ultimatum , do you think that would wake him up ? Or do any good ?

Your'e definately waking me up to what youv'e been dealing with this evening and I'm really sorry I can't offer a solution to his way of thinking , I think he's a lucky man for you to keep trying to find the answer in all honesty , I think many would have kicked his backside out by now [and that's a fella saying that yes ! ] . I really hope you can find a solution and soon for all of your sakes !.

Thank you Cw for being open and so honest in your reply's .

Best wishes for now .........................Alan

Hi, Alan,

Thanks for posting - at this stage, I assure you that I'm looking for sympathy and support, rather than trying to send anyone (other than my husband) on a guilt trip.

The thing is, you, Balvaird, Dan, Duncan, you all get it because you can appreciate the emotional side as well as the practical side. He can't? Won't? Is in denial? I think he's also depressed, which doesn't help.

Will give the idea of another ultimatum detailed thought - it has to be properly managed.

Despite it all, we usually play a few board games with the children at the weekend and in particular, we liked card games, for points, not money. But then the gambling came to light and I wasn't sure if we should play cards. So my younger teenager was thinking of possible alternatives... Scrabble? Too many words to avoid, like "honesty" or "savings".... Rummicub? No, the numbers go down, like his savings did...

Onwards and upwards. Thanks, Alan.

CW

Hi again , Last time tonight honestly ! , The board games or card games , the trouble is where do you draw the line ?, its difficult in this word of our's to find anything that involves competiton that doesn't have undertones of gambling involved , so maybe just do it , you can't avoid word's like honesty and chance or get out of jail free [ how I wish I had one of those at times ] ? only kidding !.

Seriously though , your the only one that can decide when enough is enough or what your'e prepared to accept from him, as you say , if he's also suffering from depression you have to make some allowance but again how much is always going to be down to you !.

You and the kids have to come first now , youre obviously an intelligent lady and I'm sure you'll make the right decision if need arises .

It's been a pleasure speaking with you tonight , kep the posts coming as I'm always here for support , just sorry I couldn't magic up an answer , maybe if I changed my user name to Harry Potter ?

Look after yourself CW ...................................................Alan

Just another quick thought , When I was dealing with my wife's alcohol addiction, her way of fending me off from bringing it out in the open and dealing with it , was to threaten divorce ! Just reading back over your first thread on making amends , where you said you'd had a heated debate and he threatened divorce ! .

She on numerous occasions and whenever the subject of her drinking came up, things like bottles hidden around the house and her not having enough money for food , usually because as I later found out it was being spent on booze , would threaten me with divorce " That's it I'm going to make an appointment to see a solicitor ", " Your'e just imagining thing's " she was in total denial that she had a problem .

She finally carried out her threat and we divorced about 7 years ago , she then went on to lose her licence through drink driving at 10 in the morning , lost her job to boot and to this day has seen our children twice in 7 years , has never paid any form of maintenance and has not seen her mum , brothers or sisters either , she to this day has not sought any help and remains in denial . She's started a completely new life in order to avoid facing her old one , so how's that for not dealing with it ?.

Sorry went off on one there a bit ! but you can see how someone will not go the whole hog and simply say " Yep hands up I did it, I'm sorry , I need help " just to " save face " [crazy ?].

Hi, Alan,

Sorry to hear that you've been through the mill as well - dealing with an addict in denial is truly awful. Even if the behaviour patterns are predictable.

You're doing really well, you're showing what can be achieved and what standards f&f should expect. Same for Dan, Balvaird, Kelly, Duncan and everyone else who help out on this side of the fence.

Take care,

CW

Hi CW,

Merry Christmas to you too! I guess peace to mind and harmony to soul is all i can wish to you during this season...of course, all this followed with smiles, joy and never ending belief of good things entering your life!

Have a magical day, ...it is possible ☺

Sandra x

Cynical wife wrote:

Hi, Alan,

Sorry to hear that you've been through the mill as well - dealing with an addict in denial is truly awful. Even if the behaviour patterns are predictable.

You're doing really well, you're showing what can be achieved and what standards f&f should expect. Same for Dan, Balvaird, Kelly, Duncan and everyone else who help out on this side of the fence.

Take care,

CW

A happy christmas and peace in our hearts today. Christmas can bring out the best in people sometimes? Appreciate the small stuff.

Hi cw

I'm trying to think about making amends after reading your post and it's interesting that his attempts to make amends involve denying things like going to ticketed events or restaurants with you.... Forgive me if I'm out of line in saying this but thinking about this I can't help but think his efforts to make amends seem focused quite a lot on how he is feeling, it seems quite selfish on his part even as he is clearly also making a great effort for you and the family (I really don't mean this as a criticism!!) to the extent that he's threatening divorce if his efforts to make amends aren't "good enough" for you.... And in the sense that he's so driven to make good the money he took that in doing so he'll deny you things you would enjoy like eating out or ticketed events. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but I'm wondering if a lot of this is focused in his mind on him dealing with his own guilt or maybe shame issues over what's happened. I can't even imagine talking amends with my gf - she's always the one who wants people making amends to her...

I can see where you're coming from therefore when you talk about emotional amends as that's where I guess there will be more chance to be focusing more on recognising and meeting your emotional needs and those of your family too. How are the conversations about amends going?

I couldn't help but laugh when I saw your mention of scrabble. In October, when I was really broke, I started talking to my gf and her brother about getting a PlayStation. I've never got the attraction of these things but I thought ok, they won't watch films or go anywhere or do anything except to the casino (though my gf likes to binge drink once or twice a week), and so maybe a PlayStation would give them an alternative to the slot machines even if not the blackjack and roulette. Then I thought given their underlying psychological and emotional issues of which the gambling is perhaps a symptom am I not in danger of either promoting a PlayStation addiction instead of or in addition to the gambling addiction, so I dropped the idea! One addiction is enough to deal with!

Anyway i reckon the scrabble is a great idea! Even if uncomfortable words come up, it's all focused on the game not on the gambling so it may give a great opportunity for these words to crop up and get dealt with in a way that doesn't make anyone defensive.... Maybe initially some awkward moments but after a while, normality and that might help in the wider process of dealing with all the wider harms caused by his gambling.

Anyway, I stopped by because I wanted to thank you for your support on the thread I started and your question about amends really got me thinking! What are the amends? And how can they make emotional amends? For me I'd want my gf to start with one word: "sorry", it's a word I've never heard from her. But I think maybe emotional amends are a bit different. The financial amends are about putting right the past mistake, the emotional amends are about acknowledging past mistakes but finding a way to move forwards by giving emotionally. Or maybe I have got it all wrong! Either way your thread was really making me think..... And about the injustice.... Do you think it's ever going to be possible for that to be put right?

Anyway, hope it's all going well, take care of yourself

CB