Hi,
I’ve just joined GamCare today so I hope this is the right place to post.
I have never gambled myself but it has become clear to me that my partner does have a gambling problem.
Our background - We’ve been together about a year now and (I know that this is incredibly fast) our son was born in mid-December. I didn’t know for a long time that gambling had ever factored in my partner’s life. In fact, our son was very much a surprise and when we found out that I was pregnant, we really carefully considered our situation before we went ahead with it. As I was 20 and at university with a part-time job, and my partner was 27 and in a full-time job, this included looking at our finances and making sure we’d be able to afford everything.
At the time, I did ask multiple times whether my partner had any loans or anything like that to pay - he said no and I trusted him.
Soon after, my partner came to live with me and my parents to save money while we looked for a place of our own. In the end, it was decided that we could stay at my parent’s house with the baby until I finished uni etc and we were a bit more stable. As part of this, my partner was to send me money each week that I could send to my parents for rent.
After about five weeks, my partner had stopped sending me money regularly. I commented on it a couple of times to him without wanting to nag him. I asked him about it one more night before bed and he pulled out his phone and said sorry and transferred it there and then apparently. I was up all night (pregnancy!) and at some point checked my bank account and realised he hadn’t sent anything at all, just pretended. I was quite worried and couldn’t understand why he wasn’t sending me the money, knowing I couldn’t afford to give my parents rent for the both of us. He woke up to me crying and asked me what was wrong and I asked him about the money. He outright told me that he just didn’t have any money to give me and he hadn’t even saved up the money that I thought he had for the baby. He couldn’t come up with an explanation though. I asked yet again about any debts and even mentioned gambling, but he said no to all of it. A while later he said that actually he owed his mum some money but didn’t really tell me what for. I was very upset because we had worked out that we could afford to have the baby only by using both of our salaries, and he hadn’t told me about any loans. I must’ve fallen asleep at some point because I later woke up and saw him on a betting app on his phone. He then couldn’t deny the gambling, told me that the money he owed to his mum was because she paid off all his old gambling debts and he had £1,000 left to pay, and left for work. I was incredibly upset about the lies regarding money and how this had been hidden from me by him and his family and friends, and I confided in my mum. This resulted in my parents throwing him out that night.
Things became very difficult. We had nowhere to live and I felt that I couldn’t trust him at all and didn’t even know whether I wanted to live with him. Eventually my want for our child to have a mother and father under one roof won out and we visited his mum. She let us one of her rental properties and wrote off the debt as long as my partner had his wages paid into my account, and I was in charge of the money. At this time, I also said that if this became a problem again, I wouldn’t subject our child to it, during or after pregnancy, and I would leave for a more stable environment.
This arrangement seemed to work, with me paying the rent and sending him an “allowance”. However, as we got closer to Christmas, my partner kept saying he felt babied by having to request his money from me. It just so happened that our baby arrived quite early and I spent some time in hospital, during which the money was not a priority for me, and my partner had his wages paid back to himself. I did spot this, but he had been slowly gaining back some of my trust and I thought that he could handle things a bit better.
Four weeks after our son arrived, I turned over in bed one night during a feed to find him on the same betting app again. I remained calm and asked him about it and he was very defensive. The only thing he said to me all morning was “Yes, I’m gambling again.” Later I tried asking him more about it, why, how often, etc and he defended it by saying “Well I haven’t lost anything yet this time.”
We did then argue about it almost all night, I couldn’t believe that he would risk losing his son over it and felt he didn’t care about either me or our baby boy, especially as I was by then really struggling with emotional problems postpartum. And he was very defensive and quoted the stress of me wanting him home to help with the baby in the evenings instead of working late as the cause of his relapse.
My health visitor came to see me and requested that I go back to stay with my parents and get some help from them with the baby. She also advised me that it was highly unlikely that my partner would ever stop as he has an addiction and that I must accept that it may not be possible to have the family life that I wanted, with us all together in one house. I have been staying at my parents’ house ever since (it has been 10days).
I really need some help. I would love to be able to help my partner, and appreciate that in order to get better, he has to want that himself. But I am struggling so much with my mental and physical health after the birth of my son, I can’t see how I can look after them both at the same time successfully. I have encouraged my partner on to sites like this one and suggested talking to a doctor about whatever it is that causes him to gamble, as I believe this to be linked to emotions and was worried about postpartum depression in men. I want to be all in one house again but I am very very upset about the whole situation, feel very betrayed by the lies, and honestly don’t think I will ever be able to trust him again. Especially as it seems he was willing to risk losing his whole family over this, and doesn’t show that he’s sorry about it at all.
I do completely understand that gambling is an illness and that he is using the gambling as a solution to some other problem, but I don’t know how best to help him, or even if I can. My partner does not seem to want to help himself. I am trying to make sure that my son is not exposed to any arguments or fraught environments, and staying at my parents house helps with this, but I am aware that I will need to make the decision whether or not to go back and live with him at some point soon. None of us can keep living in this limbo.
Please send advice if you can. Thank you.
Hi brand new mum I'm so very sorry to see this, you are so young to have become embroiled in this. Look after you and baby first. Stay at your mum's, you definitely don't want to be around him when you know what he's doing. He has no desire to stop because he doesn't need to. His mother is enabling him, every time she pays his debt she sets him free to gamble again. His credit score remains healthy and he can get loans to fund his gambling. There is no point saying 'if you do this again '. Ultimatums don't work. You can't change him he has to want it for himself. Don't pay his debts, don't give him money, don't pay his share. It has nothing to do with love, he's addicted. The only way to have things in life is to earn them. It's very difficult watching someone self destruct but the best thing to do is stick to your 'guns'. Find a gamanon meeting they are online Sunday nights 8-9, look up website. Gamcare offer counselling and you can talk to an advisor on the phone. Start thinking just about you and the baby. Is this what you want for yourself? Why are you willing to accept this bad behaviour? Set a few rules, he should find a GA meeting, sign up to gamstop for 5 years, find a bank account that restricts gambling (starling, monzo, Barclays). You have to see change and actions. Compulsive gamblers are compulsive liars and will promise you the world. The longer they gamble the more damage they do financially and emotionally. Don't attempt to do any of these things for him, he needs to sort this mess himself. In my experience my father in law bailed my husband out, paid his debts after he'd gambled the money for our honeymoon, lied for him. When they have someone helping them and stopping them facing consequences this will go on and on.
Well done for seeking help, your right in taking yourself and the baby our of that environment as the reality is only one person can help him and that is himself. He has no excuse, he had a loving partner who is supportive of him, there are GA meetings all over the world, he could seek councelling and really work on his recovery...but its all down to him. I go to my local GA meeting and have seem plenty of worried partners or family members bring someone along but they seldom return or really engage with the recovery plan as they are not doing it for themselves and dont want to stop gambling.
It takes hard work to tackle this so he has to be committed, not saying 'Im feeling babied' he should be saying thank you for helping me with my recovery. If you were to live together you would have to have financial control, you would have to have full access to all his emails, his credit history to see any debts (Clearscore is free and shows any credit cards or loans in his name). My partner sees everything I do, and rightly so. I am a compulsive gambler and have wasted thousands on gambling that could have helped our family so that trust should never be 100%. Thats the way it is.
Look up Gamanon and seek suppport from others in your position. I know things seem hard to take now, but well done for the steps you have taken so far in protecting your child. Its not easy so well done you.
Hi Brandnew mum
I am in a very similar situation to you. I left my husband when my baby was five weeks . Have a read of my posts if you can.
I can completely relate to what your saying , ultimately you know that if you stay with him as he is your baby will not be in a safe place . He will take all the resources from you that should be channelled into your baby. The way that I see it is there is nothing I can do, my husband is not ready to get help and I will not put my baby in the situation of living in a toxic, dangerous situation.
Your evidently an amazing mother for acting so quickly despite being at such a vulnerable stage.
The following has helped me,
take one day at a time,
looking after myself, eating and sleeping as best I can.
Talking to friends and family.
Counselling.
You will have ups and downs but it does slowly get easier I promise.
Merry go round, Joe-90 and Esme100,
Thank you very much for your comments. I’ll keep everything you’ve said in mind going forward.
I hope that you/your friend/family member is managing their recovery well and hope that you aren’t put in the same positions again.
Best of luck to all.
He needs to take a long hard look at himeself, hopefully this temporary separation will help him, but it sounds like he is still deeply embroiled in gambling. If you look back on the threads in this subsection, most of the people aren't ready to stop yet, and are still in denial, and not reached a low point where they want to turn their life around. I feel like the advice form your health visitor is based on experience. The reality is that people who don't get addicted don't get addicted, and those that do have serious trouble staying clear.
I am in the same boat, struggling to not gamble, but I fortunately have no dependents, and still manage to save money each month.
Hello, I'm not sure how much this will help or confuse you but I thought an input from someone who has grown up their whole life with a compulsive gambler for a dad might be of interest. First of all, well done for seeking help. My parents are now divorced but when they were together, my mum would encourage my dad to go to gamblers annoymous groups where family went as well - I'm sorry I'm not sure what they're called - it meant that even if he didn't go she could and I know she really benefitted from talking to people who understood her. In terms of your child, gambling has a long term impact on children and if possible, it's always best to shelter them from issues. I know that although I am incredibly proud of my mum for bringing me and my sister up essentially alone, my family life while they were together was not one I remember fondly, I picked up on every argument and hostility from an incredibly young age and the impact on me of discussions and worries about money lying and secrets have been lasting. Having said this though, it's always better to try first but just remember that if it gets too hard it's not worth your own or your child's happiness, security and future. My mum became frustrated, angry, upset, worried and anxious. It's easy to ignore the issues and think that you can help the people you care about but you can only do so much without them wanting to help themselves.
Hello everybody,
Thank you very much for your comments. Here’s an update for you:-
After getting upset when my partner came over one night to visit us at my parents’ house, I was going to make my stay with my parents permanent and give up on him completely.
My Mum stunned me. She is not a fan of my partner’s at all, especially after everything that’s happened gambling-wise, but she strongly encouraged me to go back and give things one last go. She said that if I didn’t, she worried that I would spend my life wondering “what if?” and punishing myself for not trying hard enough. After thinking it through, I realised she does know my personality inside and out and yes, I probably would do that. So I came back with the baby to my partner’s house.
Now I feel stupid. I have no evidence of him gambling at all but I feel like he is hiding things from me all the time. I don’t know whether that is just my own mistrust or whether there is actually something going on. He’s still not having his wages paid to me and I don’t think he ever will. I can’t help thinking that he’s gambling or borrowing money from people again. I don’t want to raise this with him as I know it would cause arguments and I’m really trying very hard not to argue or be upset around the baby as it’s not good for him.
A prepaid card came in the post for him the other day and my immediate thought was that he was trying to siphon off some money and then give me access to his main account so that I wouldn’t even notice anything was missing. He said that this is actually a card that’s meant to help you manage your money better and that he was going to bin it. To this day, he’s still carrying it around in his phone case. I can’t help thinking it’s something more.
Again, I’ve been trying to encourage him onto sites like this with no success. He doesn’t respond to me anymore if I ask questions about gambling and generally it’s become a taboo subject. I wondered if letting him see my thread on here is a good idea? Has anyone on here tried this before? I didn’t know whether it might clarify things from my perspective for him or whether he’d just think I’m stupid for asking for help when it’s not technically my problem.
I’m mistrusting of his Mum and his friends as well, as I know he has borrowed money from them in the past. There are no personal problems between us, but I feel that if I ask them whether he has borrowed more, they will lie for him and either don’t realise or don’t care that they are enabling him.
I really really just want him to be honest with me but I’m beginning to see that even if he says that nothing is happening, I’ll never believe that’s what’s really going on.
What kind of future should I expect to have with a gambler? I have a strong emotional attachment obviously, he is the father of my child, and of course there is an issue of trust here, but factually I’m not sure what to expect. I imagine we’ll never be able to get married and if we own a house one day, it will be my house in my own name paid for by my money, not his/ours. Can anyone with experience tell me what other practical things may be affected? I just want to educate myself as much as possible, so I can help him more effectively. I know he needs to want it himself and help himself, but I keep wondering whether he does need help from me but I’m not providing the right help or saying the right things.
I’m very very confused. Most of the comments above say to stay with my parents and focus on the baby. My focus is still very much on what’s right for my child. I need to figure out for sure whether having the three of us under one roof or having a more financially (and I guess eventually emotionally) more stable home with only one parent is better for him.
I’m feeling like my whole life is becoming one awful episode of that show, Jeremy Kyle, and I can’t stand it.
BrandNewMum
Your mother is encouraging you to return to abuse and what she is saying is nonsensical. However, you need real life support from people who understand addiction and for your own sanity, go to GamAnon and CoDA. Find a babysitter, just go.
I wonder what your mother’s marriage was like, whether she also stayed through thick and thin? Unusually not thick but thin and actually abusive. And what her own mother taught her about marriage? Learning the wrong lessons is passed down the generations but you can be the one to stop it. There’s only harm and no good in staying in an addictive relationship, with no boundaries and dysfunctional behaviour all round. But maybe it’s only what your mother knows.
One aspect of your own recovery is learning how to make your own decisions and be comfortable with them, possibly in the face of opposition. Listen to your instincts and have faith in yourself and your own ability. Tell your mother that you deserve better, that you want better for your baby and you’re more worried about what if you don’t end the relationship. But if you don’t want to be giving your daughter the same advice in twenty years time, you need to work on yourself.
Focus on you first, in the same way that you must put your oxygen mask on first in the event of decompression in a plane. Because unless you’re wearing your mask, you won’t physically be able to put a mask on anyone else and you’ll all perish. It isn’t about what’s best for the baby but about what’s best for you and the baby.
One other aspect of your own recovery is taking ownership of your own decisions. If you go back, that’s your choice, not your mother’s and you’re responsible for it.
Take care of you.
CW
Brand new mum, you are not a lost cause. You didn't cause this. Why would you go back to the same? You can make rules. He may be trying with the card, I don't know enough to pass comment. From my experience I do know that they will hide stuff but show you what they want you to see. For example they can show you one account but have 2 others that you know nothing about. You can give them money for lunch and they go to the bookies or have a bet with a mate. So there is benefit to controlling finances but you have to have credit reports and cash with receipts. Some advice is not to ask if they've gambled? What difference will it make? It gives them ammunition. You can't stop anyone enabling him. You can get legal advice and if you enter a mortgage etc have it in your sole name. A gambler who wants to stop will do these things. At the moment you don't trust him and that's fine. I found conflicting advice. Gamcare counselling that I attended thinks they should learn to manage money. Total abstinence isn't necessary. My husband doesn't want money anymore, attends meetings. I am under no illusion if he wanted to gamble he would. What I do know is that gambling is the result of a crisis. He gambled when he couldn't cope with reality. He became addicted to the numbness, safety, oblivion. There's lots of information about addiction, codependent, etc. You want total transparency. If he offers you that will you still doubt him? The point here is that you have to change the way you deal with things. You feel helpless because you don't know enough. You are not helpless, you can set rules and limits of what you can take. But you have to stand by your decisions, if he crosses your line you have to have a consequence. Did anything change or was anything agreed before you came back? He may be trying but you need to see the changes. He should understand your doubts and worries if he's really trying to stop. I would not show him this thread , this is a place for you to talk freely. If he's gambling he will persuade you not to listen to anyone but him. If you can get a baby sitter try and find a gamanon meeting. They are also online Sunday nights 8-9. Keep asking, others will hopefully offer their advice and support.
Let's be charitable (very!) towards your mum. Perhaps she wants you to make the decision yourself & never think it was you mums encouragment to leave that made you mind up.
"but I keep wondering whether he does need help from me but I’m not providing the right help or saying the right things".
He is not the baby in this relationship. Practical help that you can provide would include managing his finances. He refuses that help. Nothing you can say will help, he is still at the stage where he wants you to shut up sohe can focus on gambling. He might always be at that stage.
Would you go back if he was an alcoholic or addicted to drugs, and was refusing to stop ?
Different addictions, but the family consequences including for children are the same.
Imagine 6 years down the line & your childs piggy bank with birthday money is 'borrowed from'. Perhaps by then you have another child. What then ? Another chance ? You may find it even harder to leave.
Listen to Merry go Round and Cynical Wife. They have earned the right to give solid advice the hard way.
Listen to the complusive gamblers here . If you were my daughter I would be pleading with you to get out.
Even someone highly motivated to quit & attending GA still has a fairly low chance of staying clean for life.
There are not many people with a 25 year pin in GA.
Merry go round wrote:
. What I do know is that gambling is the result of a crisis. He gambled when he couldn't cope with reality. He became addicted to the numbness, safety, oblivion.
Absolutely brilliant sentence.
Hello again.
I seem to have caused some offence with my last comment. I don’t intend to keep updating on my circumstances as this process seems to have made me more upset than it has helped. I’m not completely naГЇve to my situation, and will take whatever steps are necessary in the end, including taking my son to live elsewhere away from his dad. But I am clearly not ready to receive “advice” in the form of such strong opinions on this site.
I feel like the part regarding my Mum did not read the way that it was meant. My Mum would not force me into a bad situation. She has made it very clear the entire time that myself and my son are very welcome to live with my parents for as long as we like. She is an incredible grandmother and mother and has helped me so much throughout my pregnancy and after our son’s birth.
The encouragement to try staying a few nights back with my partner and see how it goes was because she does not want me to live my life beating myself up over whether I could’ve done more. She knows my personality incredibly well, and that’s exactly the kind of thing I would do.
As a side note, not that it should matter to anyone on this site as it is completely irrelevant to my own situation - My mother and father have always had a very loving, supportive, strong marriage, as have my grandparents. I look up to all of them and aspire to have a relationship like theirs someday. I’m not stupid. I know that my current relationship is nowhere near that right now. I’m not going to defend my partner or my own relationship, but please do not pass comment on things which I have not even mentioned and which you know nothing about.
Finally, thank you for all genuine recommendations and advice. As always, wishing you all the best with your own recoveries or your friend/family member’s recovery, and for the future.
BrandNewMum
Hi there,
I havent used this forum in a while but i thought iw ould just pop on. I have recently had another baby with my wife. Elodie is now a month old :]
I would never suggest to give up on him or anything like that as i needed 4 or 5 relapses befor i hit rock bottom and my wife stood by me even with our young daughter who is 6 now and i cant thank her enough. so please dont give up on him. My advice to you comes from something many people on this forum have said to me and i think it is so true for both the gambler and partner or parent of a gambler. The sentence is "nothing in life will change if you change nothing in life" meaning basically that you cant just go back to how i was befor as nothing will have changed. he needs to give you financial control and you need to take financial control. no ifs and no buts. this is the change you have to make if you want any chance of this to work. This is what you need to say to him. Full financial control including the pre paid card or its over. This will tell you whether he is ready to start his recovery yet or not.
What advice would you give your little one if in 19 years time he comes up to you worried that his partner is gambling? im pretty sure you wouldnt say just go back and live with him and hope it all stops...
Do keep us updated. nobody on this forum wants to upset anyone and it is the people on this forum that have given me my life back... they can give you yours back too so please just read carefully and take their advice.
Tunnie x
Hi, firstly I'm sorry you are in this situation. You wont have caused offence, people, even strangers on here will be concerned for you, I was thinking the same about your mum's advice until I re read after your last update and yes maybe she has actually tried to ensure she doesn't influence you and wanted to make it clear the decision is your own.
Great that you have that support network either way though.
As for your oh - The pre-paid card is something I tried at one point but the relaity was it was just another account, somewhere else to hide spending or move money around. I created false bank statements, moved money around all over the place, changed the names of the 'payee' so on my bank statement it would show as 'barclaycard' but the money would actually go to another card, from which I could spend the funds.
things like this sound horrendous in hindsight and I almost dont recognise that it could of been me doing all that but I did. Essentially until gambling is not a taboo conversation and until you have full access, to any account that shows on any one of the credit files then you should not trust anything. It is then up to you what you do with that.
From what you have written I would be in no doubt that gambling is still happening.
I'm in the early stages of recovery (again) - after gambling for 20+ years I am now 675 days gamble free - My wife and family still have full access to every account I have - no idea if/how often they access them but they can if they want. I wont even buy so much as a raffle ticket now and am working with a counsellor, gamcare and I have told a lot of people around me. I am open to any questions and having finally turned the corner debt wise I have very limited access to any household funds yet I still do most of the work. My wife will sign into to the bank for example then I have to do all the bill paying, budgeting etc so I don't get to absolve responsibility but cant do any of that without her agreement, she will ask someone for advice if what I am saying doesn't make sense, I can't pay or transfer to anyone new without her authorising it. I also regularly get quizzed on funds coming out of the account (always now transpires she has ordered something online) but I wouldn't have it any other way. I dont have access to paypal (that's an easy one to abuse). I have one bank account, as the main earner my money goes in and then it gets transferred the same day and I have one credit card that has a direct debit to clear the full amount - from my wifes account. I have an overdraft of £500 and the only reason for both of those is to try and maintain a credit history in case we apply for a mortgage. Nothing else in my name, no car loan/finance, no direct debits, no loans. We leave about £30 in my account purely again to try and maintain my credit file. If I wanted to gamble I could, quite easily now but the damage would be limited and it would be seen very quickly (a month at most). All accounts have alerts set up to my wifes phone (I dont know her passcode), my credit files all have alerts (all set to my wifes email and phone) and whilst it cant be the life she chose, it is working for us as it is but it is totally relient on my being fully signed up to this, I do all the donkey work and I do not get frustrated about being asked to justify anything financially.
sorry it was long but as a compulsive gambler I think you should be seeing more facts, first hand.
best wishes whatever you decide
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