Trying to get a handle on how much he has lost...

Ooo, painful!

Lots of questions there, most of which, despite my extensive gambling history, I can't answer I'm afraid but I'll have a stab @ some of them...

Addiction is addiction is addiction...If he's had his alcohol consumption cut without the right mental support then he's likely to be trading addictions 🙁 In some respects, if he is getting help for his alcohol issue then he should really be addressing the root causes that are sucking him into gambling.

I have no idea what goes on in Nutford (obviously it is a stone's throw from the Casino) but whilst I would hate to cast aspersions as it may have cleaned up its act by now, when I worked in Paddington (2002-2007), I used to walk along Sussex Gardens @ all times of the day & night & to say that it was a den of eniquity was an understatement! Aside from the usual Lundin detritus, I have been 'lucky enough' to witness free P**n shows (in the street), people injecting drugs (in their toes) & have also been on the receiving end of many a proposition from grown men in sometimes very posh cars (see, I did learn something as a child)!

I understood that Casino to be a fairly classy joint so would expect 'escort ladies' not 'ladies of the night' to frequent it but my best, completely judgemental guess would be 'women' & not 'woman'.

As for the cash withdrawals, there may well be a charge inside as I'm pretty sure I used to get charged @ the bingo (never stopped me using it) but it sounds fishy because I can just hand my card over in a bookies & the account can be obliterated in the blink of an eye. If it helps, my pattern was: start with a little amount from the cash machine (I was planning to win & not need any more), go & get some more (because I'd lost) but not too much because my machine was going to pay out soon, a bit more (chasing now), a bit more (still chasing), ad infinitum until the last 3 figure withdrawal was whittled down to 2 figures (because that was all I could take), then maybe if I was really 'lucky' I could take that last amount again before the banking caught up with the transaction.

And £800 on drinks...It's possible in the West End! I know of several clubs that may have even charged that for one drink back in the day depending on how battered the clientele was or how well they spoke English but a) I'd be shocked to find a drinking establishment in London that doesn't take cards & b) he's in a program so why on earth he would consider this an acceptable excuse is beyond me!

I maybe know why but I almost don't want to ask how you managed to spy on him & expect that this would go down like a lead balloon if you were to mention it? This is not conducive to a healthy relationship & whilst you can run yourself ragged trying to get him the help he clearly needs but may not be prepared to take, the question I have is why? Who's looking out for you?

People can overcome addiction but they have to do the work for themselves. Whether you can overcome the betrayal is something you need to figure out for yourself! The best thing you can do is arm yourself to the teeth with knowledge & get yourself some help, either through the GamCare website (that offers counselling to loved ones as well as us gamblers) or a support group of some sort GamAnon or AlAnon where you will find other people who have walked in your shoes.

I'm sorry if this comes across as hopeless, it really isn't, I gambled for nigh on 3 decades & am now emerging (more like a moth than a butterfly but I'll take it) from my cocoon...It absolutely can be done but by us, with your support, not the other way round.

Hope that has, if nothing else, let you know, you're not alone anymore - Kelly

Thank you ODATT... well, I did learn some more and I greatly appreciate it... it's not a world I know but I am trying to arm myself with information and get my head around what is going on. I'm a working mum with 2 children and yes, just need to save us if he is not going to save himself in the long run. As a spouse I have some huge decisions to make and for now if I find out more, help him as a friend then that is a start. He is in professional counselling for alcohol but to date, it isn't working although he will tell me it is sometimes... good and bad days... I have called his councellor to let him know about my gambling suspicions and his councellor has said that he wants to stay focussed on alcohol at present but see if he can get husband to open up about the gambling. That part takes time but i have at least protected most of our funds.

£800 on drinks... yes that is what he told me ... and thank you for explaining the pattern of small withdrawals... that's exactly what it is ... £200 at a time, couple of hours apart and once the account empty.... another £100 cash advance from the credit card from a cash machine.... helps me understand some of the thought processes.

I get your point that tracking is not conducive to a healthy relationship but for now, it's not healthy anway and i know its probably not right to track him but neither is what he is doing and I obviously wasn't going to get truthful answers by asking him. How can I work on something if I don't know what the 'something' is. Your insights have been very helpful, and again I am grateful. It's not really an easy topic. I wish you all the best ... I have read how difficult it is to emerge from it... and I'm sure you are an amazing moth in the making......

thanks again, Nicola

Hi Nicola no you are not alone. My husband is cg, I thought he'd stopped 15 yrs ago when he went to GA and I went to gamanon. My children were small then but after 2 years of meetings I wanted to stop. Unfortunately he continued gambling even when I had all the finances, using money for lunch etc. Then an ISA anyway they're just irrelevant examples. I go to gamanon meetings again after another episode. He followed and now back to ga. I found out so much more this time. Credit score reports will help you see what's going on. Online blockers to load onto phones tablets and pc. Also legal ways to safeguard yourself and the house. When I was at my angriest I rang the fsa (financial service) and asked them my rights about loans etc. It makes me so angry that banks will loan someone money even if their income doesn't go into their account. So I know now don't leave any accounts empty, close them. But realistically they will find a way. My cg also had episodes of drinking, he gave that up about 4/5 yrs ago. Keep talking on here ask questions, we are all trying to help each other.

Hi

Sorry to see all this. I have no idea how these places operate and in all honesty no interest in finding out. The only thing we need to be know is they exist to strip every penny they can from their punters and then some and they don't care whether the funds are rent, food, bills or 'liberated' from unsuspecting family or employers.

Trying to track your husband sounds exhausting. It's easy to fall into the trap of worrying where they are and what they are doing but the truth is you can't control what he does. He's the addict and he's the only one who can choose whether or not to address the addiction. Your choices lie with what you tolerate. Decide where your lines in the sand are and stick to them. Don't be drawn into discussion. You won't get a rational conversation anyway, at least until he decides he wants to stop.

Taking over the finances is a good first move. Don't trust a word he says without seeing proof of it for yourself. Read up on the addiction, ringfence your financial position and put yourself and your own interests first every single time

Bit odd that the counsellor didn't allude to them being much the same thing (I am reading the Big Blue book which is in effect the AA bible & despite being pretty much teetotal after a somewhat embarrassing experience with a pint of Red Rocks when I was 16 it is all very relatable) but I have no experience in that field. What I do have experience @ is bare faced lies & manipulation 🙁 If he's doing the counselling to appease someone, he may not be opening up & if he doesn't give them the full facts then obviously, they can't deal with the problem. It won't all be plain sailing but I get the impression that he may alternately want to please you (it's working) & blame something else (it's not)...As an addict, I love a good pity party & some other place to lay my blame!

Sorry to have hurt you with the tracking stuff but as Lethe says, it is that sort of thing that will drive you crazy 🙁 My mother gambles too & obviously with a slightly education perception I have found it's better to trust my instinct than any word that comes out of her mouth. Even faced with cold hard facts (like money going missing from my bedroom whilst I slept, ill) she's likely to turn Walter Mitty on me with the cover up (almost ended up calling the police she'd had me convinced it wasn't her) & now years later when used as ammo, she has conveniently forgotten stuff. I don't buy that for one minute but until we work our recovery, we seem to struggle with the truth about gambling & the lows we sunk to.

The ladies have given you great advice, I would also suggest you have a look @ the SENSE info...

http://www.nationalcasinoforum.co.uk/playingsafe/sense-information/

Assuming he knows that you know about the casino stuff, although he can't gamble with thin air. I'm not sure if it would help but I have removed the cash facility from my mum's Barclaycard (an additional holder on my account actually) so that she can buy everything she needs but not get cash. When I was active, they wouldn't take them in the bookies but I'm not sure about casinos or online although I have read on my Nationwide T&C that they will block gambling transactions.

You really don't need to thank me for opening up, it's vital to my going forwards that I can face up to my mistakes & not sure there is such a thing as a beautiful moth but I'm working on not being one of those flappy ones that chase you round the room as you scream in terror. Everyone is here because addiction has hurt them, some of us 'willing volunteers', others like yourself had no choice in the matter but are generally working just as hard (if not harder sometimes) @ getting everyone through. There's a lot to be learned here & support to be had but where possible you need this in real life too so tell who you need to. Having a husband with depression is hard enough, having that intertwined with 2 addictions must be soul destroying. Sending you cyber strength - ODAAT

Thank you all. Had a look at Sense.... how great if he would exclude himself... no chance at the minute but something to work towards isn't it. Will see what credit score information I can find now .. You are all brilliant for guiding me......Nicola

Hi again

You can get free and free ongoing access to credit reports from all three agencies. They are available through Noddle (Callcredit), Clearscore (Equifax) and MSE's Credit Club (Experian). It's worth checking all of them as lenders and banks may differ in which ones they report to. I also have a subscription to an alert service (via Noddle) which notifies me should anything change in between the monthly updates to the report. It's not foolproof because if they're determined to do XYZ they will but combined with being on top of everything else financially (as you must be) it should cut down the opportunity for secret bank accounts and loans to be opened behind your back.

Not sure why I skirted round it yesterday (maybe I didn't want to alarm you anymore), I'm not going to do you the disservice of not saying something today...Given that I am very much inclined to agree with you about him cheating you may need to consider your sexual health 🙁

I'm guessing since he is on an allowance the gambling is 'out' so it would be reasonable to request that he excludes for your peace of mind...I mean it's not like he's using the casino is it, the £800 was on drinks 😉 I have put the feelers out about the Vic Casino, if I get any info about the workings, I will post it for you.

Seriously, Nicola, have a think about the counselling the site offers or getting along to a support group...Marriage vows aside, as a working mother, you have enough on your plate without having to deal with his nonsense. To some extent, addiction is about what we can get away with & you need to set your own boundaries & in such a way that your children are protected. I grew up in a household of addiction, I can't see why this means I was ripe for sinking into it (as has been pointed out to me) because I had an excellent childhood but watching the drunk dragging us up, walk all over my mum was unpleasant. I learned not to let that happen to me...If I had been a boy, it may have been different! Yes, he is an addict, no he probably can't 'just stop' but there is plenty he can do to show you that he wants to get a grip of this & you have to figure out what you can tolerate & stick to your guns because he's not looking out for anyone @ the moment other than himself. If you get a chance, have a look @ Amom's diary "It's a journey not a destination" to see how soul destroying this can be & how looking after yourself as you dish out the tough love is the only way to get through this.

Be safe - ODAAT

Hey Odaat and Lethe.... I really appreciated your help back in July and have been getting further facts. I'm on to the credit score sites and he has run out of money but no new credit arrangements which is great... they send me a notification when there is an update to his status. I know his withdrawals are $200 each time from the ATM... I now know when you put $200 on your account at the casino, they give you an extra $50 credit. That explains a lot. I have his casino account number but of course can't access the details ... but just the account number is enough I guess.

And I also was made aware that earlier this year he requested compensation from the Casino as one of the other poker players said something derogatory to him and he felt the Poker team leader should have intervened ... and he didn't . he also said in his request for compensation that apparently drinking was mentioned by the others at the table (yes, he is an alcoholic) but he stated that it was the Casino's fault as they were giving him drinks..... I have dug enough now to know that as a family, we aren't loosing further funds at this stage and I am also aware that this man has slipped so far down the scale that it's mind-boggling..... I'm officially his 'carer' now, rather than his wife but he is fast loosing us all. I can't see any way back now. Well, that's where we are at .... don't know if there is any hope for him at this stage. Can't see any glimmer of hope that he is as strong as you have been ODAAt and can overcome this. Thank you! Nicola

Hi, Nicola,

I would urge you to start AlAnon meetings immediately, as in today. Not for him but for you. To help you learn to look after yourself, because focusing on him and his addictions is a recipe for chaos and disaster for the whole family. AlAnon will help you break the generational chain.

Hope you go for it, wish you well.

CW

Hi Nicola I agree, get to a meeting. You need support and help. You shouldn't have to be his carer. The money is gone, doesn't matter about what happened in the casino. You can't shoulder this alone. Call gamcare too, get advice and some counselling. Good luck!

Thank you so much... I will get to a meeting asap.. some professional advice would be great at the moment...