Killing the Zombie

Decided I hate the word recovery - although I have used it regularly recently.

I think it's just a way of providing distance between our present and our past. We enter this mythical (and totally ill-defined) recovery and we're sorted. We can then crack on judging our own past and other people.

Or more specifically, we stop gambling, we feel ok but something's not quite right. We then get pished off that nothing's substantially changed. Then we declare that we're now in 'recovery' and that's it. We've made it.

What is it? I'm sure the Steps has a specific definition - which probably given definition but even then it's up to the individual to declare recovery. But more generally - meh. Just people thinking they're superior in some 'deep way' which normal addicts wouldn't understand.

Why can't we (I) use normal words to describe what's going on? I'm trying to face up to my fears when previously it was too terrifying and so I sought comfort in addiction . I get a lot more from that.

God it's tiring looking after a 5 month old on Saturday!

Hey Louis

I think Recovery is more of a verb rather than a noun... a process rather than an end result. Recovery for me means trying to change the old patterns that weren't working, and learning more about myself.

I don't think its meant to "feel superior" but rather you are working in a direction to change your life... to feel like you are behaving in line with the things you value. I think you can call it whatever you like... especially if you hate the word!

As far as that 5 month old... you enjoy every single second! It's over before you know it:)

Have a great weekend Louis

Cathyx

Evening Louis !

I have to agree with you iyt's a word I'm not that fond of but as with you , a word I use frequently . I suppose if you look on gambling as an illness then maybe it is the right phrase ? I gave up smoking many years ago but would never consider using the term " Recovering Smoker " it's just something I used to do , I suppose you could give it any name you like really , I could say I'm in " Limbo " or maybe " Halfway up the stairs " ? Call it what you like Louis your still smashing it everyday , so just enjoy ! .

With regards to your 5 month old son , don't worry only another 17yrs and 7 months to go and as Cathy said " It'll be over before you know it " Enjoy buddy :))

Echo advice to live in the moment and enjoy the baby. My almost twenty year old started out as an underweight baby. But baby cuteness does go with broken sleep, it's an occupational hazard. It has to be a good thing to be feeling rather than glazed and numb, surely?

Take care,

CW

Hey Cathy, Alan and CW, thanks for your kind comments.

Cathy, I like your definition of recovery. It is the same definition as how I seek to live my life - 'acting in accordance with my values'. Sounds simple, not quite so simple to put into practice...but a solid framework nonetheless (of course you MUST have clearly defined values).

I also appreciate the idea of appreciating the moment.

Willingness is a key to living according to my values. That's because acting according to my values doesn't always bring instant gratification and can be discomforting at times.

And I'm still learning to turn up my willingness dial in all sorts of areas. With my son, in spite of him being incredibly smiley and beautiful, it's still very tiring looking after him all day. He has to be constantly held/supported and entertained for 14 hours. Willingness and attention play a huge role. If I start thinking about other things, if I start checking emails with the other hand, the whole process becomes much more tiring as I'm elsewhere and less present.

My GF has amazing levels of willingness - she must have to look after him throughout the week without going slightly mad. Far from it, she's obviously tired quite a bit but otherwise mentally and phsyically seems as healthy as ever.

I came to the decision that if I'm going to keep posting on this forum, I need to use it more as a way of getting my troubling thoughts down. I just don't see the point of cataloging great times I'm having. Maybe that's very British, hang on.. very Scottish even. But I don't need to justify my 'success' on my diary.

At the same time, doesn't mean that when I post negative it's SOS time. I think I've got much better now at not buying fully into negative experieces I'm having. But it's still good to get it down.

Hi Louis

If you were to ask 99% of people on here to expand on what they mean when they use the word recovery, you would get a collective shrug of the shoulders. Much the same when people talk about one day at a time.They use words they have associated with addiction & just want to follow their perception of the script expected. If you dont have a very defined, clear idea of what recovery means to you, then you are not in it.

Its close to 10 years since i last had a bet. How long have i been in recovery? Maybe 5.

I posted awhile ago on destination & definition of recovery being hugely important. A wishy washy concept around it will acheive nothing.

Its hard to spot much recovery on here as in general its people very much in the early days of stopping. People with a relatively short time of stopping are seen as veterans of success, whereas everywhere else they would be viewed as novices whom have made a good start. Its just the nature of this forum.

2 years is considered an average time for the fog of addictive thinking to begin to subside. How many regular posters have that time behind them? 4 maybe? So hardly surprising where the conversation will tend to drift.

Im not suggesting time is a prerequisite to offering sound advice, i have met many people with decades off gambling who still talk nonsense!

Hi Louis

I asked a similar question in the chatroom earlier this week
It was along the line of what is recovery. The answer seemed to be wanting a better life.
I haven't a clue what it is. Or what I want it mean yet.
I thought I would start by just getting to a year gamble free first
And see what my boundaries are
Like can I walk through town with cash in my pocket without swerving straight through the slot house door's. Or can I walk into the shops with out buying a scratch card. I guess my boundaries mean the most to me at the minute.
I did notice you talk about act and I found the books you mentioned in the debates section on Google play. There relatively cheap.
I think when I'm sorted mentally
I definitely give them a go. As they came across well when you described what there purpose was

Bw

Deano

Never liked the word 'recovery' either Louis. I've rarely used it on the forum, although to say I hate the word would be far too strong.

I think the word in the context of addiction treatment is undefined (and I've consulted my Dictionary & Thesaurus (in colour) I'll have you know), this makes it easy to be ill-defined, as well of course as well-defined, without having one definition that is universally understood.

Kinda just see it bandied about. Much like yourself I see it as a word often used to comfort people in a 'there, there you'll be okay now you're in recovery' sense without necessarily anything changing.

Recovery: "return to a normal state of health, mind or strength."

It's the returning to a previous state aspect of the definition that has never appealed to me. I've struggled with particularly speech since I was very young so have never felt I have a 'normal state' of health, mind or anything else to recover to.

I prefer to look at it more as a 'discovery' process.

Discovery: "action or process of discovering or being discovered."

Look at the first two words of the above definitions: 'return' and 'action'.

If I discover more about myself it will enable the necessary learning, changing and developing to help find myself in a better place; which makes 'discovery' seem more descriptive - regarding how I need to move forward - than 'recovery'.

If the aim is to recover (v = get better, improve, get well, recuperate, heal); the action required is to discover (v = find out, learn, notice, realize, recognize) how to do it.

Ultimately, if we remain open-minded, learn, change, develop, make the most of and appreciate the time we have as well as our freedom then whether you consider yourself in 'recovery' or not doesn't really matter, you'll be on the right path - which I'd consider more important than using the right word.

re-read your first post, you've come a long way Louis and brought a lot to the forum with you. However you use the forum in the future I wish you continued success.

Thanks for your comments guys. Might start a topic on recovery. Glint, thank you! Totally agree and really like your 'discovery' description.

But for now, I take a brief lull in crazyness of holidays to reflect on my 2 week jaunt seeing family and in-laws.

Xmas usually a time I get morose and sticky. For me, nothing to do with a problematic family, quite the opposite. I think more to do with feeling somehow inadequate and distant from my family. Which makes something like Xmas, when I'm with them, more sad.

So family time, followed by time with the in-laws, lovely people, but people who I score highly on my 'fear of being judged-ometer', wasn't exactly a tantalising prospect.

But, it was ok, it was good. My partner asked me if I enjoyed myself with the in-laws - I wasn't totally sure how to answer that, particularly in repsect of time with her parents. I mean at times it was like mild-torture, particularly when I was on around day 3 in that same living room, knowing there was still a long way to go. Having my insecurities exposed. Having to actually relax and 'be myself'.

The problem with my partner's parents, is that they're really very sound. They're kind, quite funny, pretty down to earth. Not perfect but I know they're really decent folk. In a way it was much easier with previous partner's family who were t0553rs. My own inadequacies tended to be drowned out by them. But with these lot, I really respect them. It's only a problem in a certain sense - in a more obvious way it's really good.

But it is a test for me. Basically I'm being allowed to be myself, but (over a concerted period of time and without any comfort distractions such as booze/work/things to do), I find it difficult. I know it's because I fear being judged. I know that it's because this is a source of people and relationships which are extremely important to me, but I still find it difficult.

So when I was asked if I enjoyed myself, I couldn't really say I did. I mean, I think I kind of did say I enjoyed it as I didn't want to be ungrateful. Which in a sense was a lie, but on the other hand I felt strongly I was GLAD to have done all that. It's really important and I know a lot of the she'ite circulating my head is not as bad as it is in reality. In a way, it's not whether I had a great time, but whether I was doing stuff that's important to me. And spending Xmas with my 6 month old grandparents is about as important to me as it gets.

Lots of randoms to get down in v little time.

I've always had quite an immature approach to families, including in-laws. When I was much younger, late teens, it was okay to be withdrawn, to be dying to sneak off and have a f*g, a spliff, a drink. I'd created this artificial world that I was cooler. Obviously not exactly unique experience, but this trait kind of carried on.

But somewhere not very far down the line, it kind of morphed into generalised avoidance. I was avoiding because I felt awkward, inadequate. I think to others, my family, it seemed a contimuam but it wasn't really.

So now I'm 39, and a part of me still thinks its ok to keep a bit held back. But mostly I know what's going on. I can make moves towards or away. When I retreat I get temporary relief but I lose confidence as I lose purpose.

This time I didn't worry at all before going away. I just walked into it. This time I didn't beat myself up over X, Y or Z. My goal is to actually be able to generally say I've enjoyed these experiences overall. Not to be gagging to leave come the morning of departure. But in the meantime, having a fairly can-do approach to what's important to me, will do me just fine.

Hi Glint,

I've been reading your analysis of the difference between recovery and discovery - very interesting and has certainly given me food for thought personally! I'll continue to digest...

Meantime all the best to you, and to you, cardhue.

Further thoughts...

Although the past few weeks were often challenging, as ever, I return home mentally invigorated and more alert.

Resolve for the new year is forming.

Some values I can readilly convert to goals.

Health - I want to get back to cardiovascular, I want to lose a little weight, I want to really take care of my body - from getting my ankle checked out to flossing my teeth.

Socially - will need work to convert these thoughts to goals. But I want to practice putting myself more out there. Be less led by the opinion of others and express myself. Why is this harder than working on health? Because it doesn't just involve me but centres on relationships and so is outwith my control? Or simply because of old habits and tendancies towards avoidance? Both

The first step, and the most important one, remains 'turning up'. This is the oppositive of avoidance and means getting outside of my comfort zone. Gambling epitomised avoidance and a diminishing comfort zone. It's gona take time to undo this life-long learnt habit. Only after I turn up can any kind of change happen.

The second step is to try stuff out. To take chances and take rejection.

The other area is fatherhood. A lot of this is learning to accept all the duties which come with fatherhood. Getting on with it rather than begrudging it.

The final one - is to be more engaged with my partner. To make her laugh. To be her companian. To be intimate.

This place is like A &E.

Particularly in respect of new arrivals. People arriving battered, bruised and desperate.

Urgent treatment us required to stop the bleeding. But addiction is telling us that something is very wrong.

Treat it as a money issue and you misread the signs.

We tend to come on here and admit to past failings and insecurities, but treat the past as being a different person.

Almost from the second we stop gambling, we've reinvented ourselves.

Understandable to want to draw a line. But..

In the real world we're still the same person. We did that stuff. Reinvention can also equal denial and not taking responsibility for our past.

Reinvention allows us to talk about our insecurities and pain in the past tense, rather than how we feel in the present moment.

There are a handful of posters who express 'negative' emotions and insecurities, mostly they are female with a couple of notable male exceptions.

This is something I struggle with in real life. I'm quite open about my past troubles but am more reluctant to admit to present struggles.

I think all these contribute-

- My ego
- Society says you must always be happy
- it's weak

These are all dubious reasons and, as with gambling, I have a choice.

why does it matter?

Because it's all part of learning to be and express myself

cardhue wrote: This place is like A &E. Particularly in respect of new arrivals. People arriving battered, bruised and desperate. Urgent treatment us required to stop the bleeding. But addiction is telling us that something is very wrong. Treat it as a money issue and you misread the signs.

Just wanted to say I really 'get' this post...Personally I'd always convinced myself that it was about the money, chasing the losses etc, it's only since I've accepted that it had nothing to do with money that I actually feel I can move forward & try to start healing....Baby steps but I'm concentrating on looking forward....no going back.

Thank you

M x

Hi Louis

Great post as normal. Your post reminded me of this youtube video from a comedian, Louis ck.It seems like its just about mobile phones but stay with it. I think you will like it, :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HbYScltf1c