The Parent's Story

Hi there

Thanks for sharing your views. Must be very difficult regarding the guilt and thinking it is your fault.

Thing is, I was a secret gambler for 14 years but I can categorically confirm 100%, that my parents were not in any way to blame whatsoever. In fact they were and are brilliant, loving and caring in every way. I didn't ever go without.

Yet I still did what I did. I basically entered a downward spiral of living by fear - fear of sitting with difficult emotions. Fear of not living up to my own expectations. Developing this huge GAP which is had to escape from.

Really nothing to do with my folks though.

Best

Louis

Hi there, phew I think you really needed to get that out! I can understand where you are coming from as my own son has a problem with gambling. He is 26, also has a decent paid job and is a hard worker. I could never understand why he always seemed to be short of money, i put it down to mismanagement of his wages and overspending. Then letters came he's missed car payments, missed pay day loan payments. We helped him out with money still not realising he had a problem until he was back again to square one. We said we will help but want to be a named person on your bank account. He agreed to that and this is when I found out what the real problem was and had been for two years. My husband and I were devastated. Devestated for him, worried for him, I waded in as a mother does, wanting to fix everything, wanting to talk, researching. I was overpowering, there heated discussions, he was nasty at times, he was in denial, he thought gambling £1200 in a month was fine. It wasnt fine at all, bills weren't getting paid, numerous pay day loans, his bank statement was upsetting to read. Why hadn't I noticed this, why didn't I know about this, why have I failed as a mother, why didn't he come to me, why why why! This was November 2015, slowly things hav improved, were still on his bank account and I move money in and out, discussing it with him. I made him phone all his creditors and put me on accounts as a named person, I dealt with them, I sorted out affordable payment plans, they were very understanding, slashing hundreds of pounds of charges off the payday loan. I even complained and got £900 compensation back from a payday loan he had taken out. Maybe I shouldn't have organised all of these things for him but he would never have been able to do it himself, he was tormented by it all he had gotten into a vicious circle and would not have got out! It's April now, things are much better, his debts are paid off, he has money to pay his car loan, he is able to save money, able to buy things, go places and is a much happier person. Now as for the gambling. No he hasn't stopped completely, he does have a bet once a week of £20, this is not ideal but it is a vast improvement. Will it keep the fire alive for him? I don't know. For now it seems to be working, I'm not naive. I don't like that I have to watch his money all the time but it is necessary as I am not ready to trust him any time soon. I know that as long as I'm on his bank account he can't gamble like he was even if he wanted to. He's happy with this situation so that's where we stand now. I'm not blaming myself anymore, he wasn't brought up or treated any different than my other children. It wasn't anything i or anybody else did that made him gamble. He got caught up in it all. It is an awful addiction it's scary for all involved, it ruins lives and can happen to anyone at all. I hope your son is able to find recovery he is lucky to have you to support him. Take care of yourself and I hope you realise you havnt done anything wrong you have been effected by this, none of us want to see our children hurting or in trouble and that is why we step in and do our best to help. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. Here's hoping for a happy future for them all. Take care. Wcid x

Hi thanks for your post I was pleased to hear your sonis also doing better. It's a nightmare isn't it. I do agree that it should be brought up and discussed in schools, youth clubs etc. I think it is a massive problem with young people and is only going to get worse with how easy access is to the internet and apps on phones, these gambling firms make it easy! Enticing people in with offers of free spins etc. Until you have been involved with a family member going through this people just wouldn't understand would they. I'm pleased to say my son is doing better as for a time I didn't know how it was ever going to get any better for him. Yes he's still having a bet but after speaking to his partner last night she tells me he hasn't had a bet for a good few weeks. I like you will not be ready to relax about this it will always be there on my mind but not as much as it was. It is upsetting to read all these stories, I also agree secrecy is no good especially when it comes to wanting help. I know it was a relief for my son getting it out in the open. It's been a hard year but has ended on a much better note than last year and for that I am grateful. Onwards and upwards for our lads and everyone fighting this addiction. Best wishes - wcid

Thanks WCID - Did we see any of this coming when we held those little bundles of loveliness in our arms all those years ago!! Lets hope they turn back into big bundles of loveliness eventually - It is looking like that may be possible now. There is no way I could have turned my back on it all and I don't think you ever will either. Hope you all have a great Xmas and successful New Year.

Thanks for popping over to my diary and your kind words.....
I love to hear fromboth sides of the fence....it al matters..
I'm glad your families life is more peacefull now.....happy Christmas love ....x

Reply to Gamparentanon

I have only joined this evening and reading your story is so close to home.

I have a son who is 21 and has had a problem with gambling for probably more than 5 years, which makes me ashamed. I feel that I should have been more aware, but it is probably only in the last 3 years that I have been fully aware of the problem. In the time that I have known about the situation, he has probably lost more than £20,000. It makes me physically sick and I know it does him too. He suffers with anxiety and depression and I don't know whether this is because of his problem or what leads him to gamble for the high he gets when he wins. He has been helped by members of his family on several occasions, and we are just about to help him again, to the tune of £4500. This is rather than him paying 49% to a loan company. But just reading on this website, I am not sure we are doing the right thing. How do we know he will stop, and how do we know that he won't just take out another loan. The whole situation terrifies me, and he is so difficult to pin down and to talk to. He is never honest about what he earns. He works hard, despite the fact that he hates the company that he works for. He is having conselling, but I don't know how helpful that is. I just wish I knew if what we were about to do was for the best.

Any advice would be gratefully received.

Thanks

It's not advisable to borrow yourself or to guarantee gambling debts. If you bail him out this time, what about next time and the time after that and the time after that, with increasing sums of money each time. What will be different for you each time?

GamAnon advise us to reflect on the phrase, "The gambler will play as long as someone else pays".

He's a grown up. Grown ups clear up their own mess and if he doesn't, then something's not right. Move the focus on to you and keep it there. You're in a bad position, get help and support for you to cope with your situation via GC counselling and GamAnon.

Take care of you.

CW

Hi arty05

I have just seen your post and feel I must step in with my best advice.

Its always a very difficult one as a gambling addiction will involve families. Its natural that you are desperately worried and sickened with this.

However you must not be too ready to hand out good money after bad until you have fully assessed your son's state of mind and if he is ready to accept all the help to stop gambling.

He must reach a stage where he is ready to live on an allowance and prove exactly what he is doing with self exclusion blocks and full monitoring. The addiction is a real form of mind control and too much kindness without control may not help and indeed make things worse.

He must be ready for full self exclusions from everywhere you can think of

Its not that he is a bad person...its just that gambling can have such a grip that he doesnt really know what he is doing. A loan bailed out may put him in a comfort zone of gambling again. . Its all based on the relationship you have as a gamblers mind may not want to stop until it starts healing. He may indeed get mildly angry or stressed that he feels you are interfering. That is a warning sign and it must be overcome or you cant and shouldnt throw your money at the situation

You will learn a great deal about the addiction and its often an escape mechanism from stress and depression which actually causes more self harm. Its deadly and if he is difficult to talk to its even more deadly.

I would advise that you talk to him as much as you can and try to help while at the same time realising that paying his loans wont make him stop if he isnt ready to. A gambler that rails against you in any way isnt ready to stop. An active gambler will run up another loan as it never ends

You must try and discuss it with a view to a born again moment. He must realise the sinking lows and misery it causes. Gambling causes divorce bankruptcy, homelessness and the break up of families so you must be aware of the power of the addiction.

I totally understand depression as Ive suffered with it for most of my life. Ive done jobs I hated made double worse by the fact that the management and other people they hire were making my life harder.

It sounds as though he may be an escape gambler as its often not all about the money.

You dont know he will stop unless you are hands on be he will need to be honest. If you cant get talking with honesty and openess then its not wise to pay things off untill he is fully ready to hand you control and seek all the help and counselling on offer

Make no mistake. There is no room for half hearted measures. His finances will need to be monitored and he will have to allow control over a vast chunk of his salary to ensure things are stable.

Ive waved my Mother goodbye then been off gambling with the bail out money. I didnt directly mean to hurt her but thats what I was doing Im ashamed about that now so in my recovery no money is handed to me without seeing it go straight to the bill that needs paying. I dont accept cash from them and they stand with me in the bank etc while things are done

Im proud to accept that because I was ready for real help to stop gambling. I report regularly and if anyone was living with me they would have also full control

Please ring gamcare as often as you like because you may need counselling over this

Best wishes from everyone on the forum

Hi arty

First of all, sorry you are having to carry all this on your shoulders but you have come to the right place for support and advice. Many of us have done the "bailing out thing" because more often than not you are promised if you bail them out they will never gamble again - but guess what? they go and do it again and if they know you will be a financial back up each month they will happily carry on. They become more selfish and more addicted. It is very hard but the bailing out has to stop at some point and that is when they become agitated, stressed and start to hit rock bottom and they are not pleasant to deal with. But you need to make them see that they have to take responsibility for their finances and get help for their addiction. Shouting/arguing is not the answer but finding a quiet moment where you all have plenty of time to talk calmly. What I would suggest before approaching him is you talking to a Gamcare counsellor, explain you want to offer support, and get as much info on the problem as you can ie. Counselling,debt advice, self exclusion methods from bookies etc. Get all this info so you can put it in front of him and you can offer practical ways of helping him. Also I always highly recommend parents or partners taking control of the gamblers finances. It helps them control their spending and makes it more difficult to spend on the gambling and avoiding them taking out payday loans etc. In our case our gambler willingly came on to gamcare immediately the problem was out in the open and that was one of the best decisions they had made for quite a few years. I myself have learned so much about the problems of gambling - a problem I never thought we would have to deal with so was fairly ignorant about it all in the beginning. All the above is suggestions that may help but it is up to you if, when, and how you approach the problem but sooner the better before his debts escalate. All I can say is we have put much of the above into practice and life is looking a lot brighter all round. It will be a long time before the finances are completely cleared and I will still not take my eye off the ball for a while but there is a great improvement. So good luck and keep in touch with us all.

Thank you to everyone that replied to me last night and this morning.

I have read with interest all of your replies, and on the whole they are all saying the same thing. Don't pay off your son's debts. It is a difficult one as we had kind of arranged with him that we would, and that it would get sorted after Christmas. Then quite by chance I listened to a programme on the radio about if you had been affected by gambling. That was what lead me to look on this website, to try and get some understanding and support, and I have, from strangers who took the trouble to read my post and reply. So I called the helpline this morning. I nearly hung up, but am glad that I didn't, and spoke at length to someone who really seemed to see where I was coming from. She also said that paying off my sons debts was probably not the best idea. In my head I had kind of decided that I would say to him that we would pay the loans off, on the basis that he be more open and honest with his finances. What I wanted to say was that I would basically take over his finances, so that I can see what is going on and I guess have some control. So, I took the opportunity, while we were on our own, to talk to him. It wasn't a disaster, but equally it wasn't a massive success. I think he would rather do anything than talk about this "whole situation". He seems completely unable to see things from anyone else's perspective than his, and see's my suggestion of me having access to his bank account as outrageous. He thinks it's wrong to be talking to me about all of this, he talks to his counsellor, he is taking his tablets, he's doing everything he can. Then I end up feeling like the villain of the piece. Which I know I am not, but I do feel like I am maybe an over controlling mother. So the bottom line is now I do not know what to do. Do we pay off the debt, and hope that he won't take out another loan, which he says he won't, or do we let him continue paying astronomical interest. In a way I am even more confused than before.

Hi arty05.

You are most certainly not the villain of th peace and he will be very confused. He will be embarrassed, ashamed confused that he has reached this situation and possibly still thinking its a winners game and how could it have gone so wrong.

Its so difficult for you and it can be a tightrope act. The talk really has to be how gambling totally destroys people.

You have to do the exercise of what he has thrown away. Get him to write it down and try and rationalise his actions and behaviour. He wont be able to and unfortunately this can lead to sulleness and anger. In the cold light of day gambling sounds crazy because the addiction is an illness

Men are often taught and expected to shoulder responsibility and be a man. He will be emotionally confused and wont want to be seen as a failure.

The moment comes when he realises that there is no shame in reaching out for help and admitting that it got to him.

Im afraid that it does take some tough love. If he cant show you what he is doing and hand over some control then why should you step up and pay your money to a loan company. Money doesnt grow on trees but his confused mind expects you to take the pressure off by paying a loan....do you get the money back?..... because I will be deadly honest in that I never really paid my parents back throughout my life

The critical point is you MUST have control if you are to help. I dont think he realises that his parents care about him in a way that the cold world never does. He doesnt seem to realise that the concern of a worried mother is no problem compared to default notices and a life which will spiral downwards so fast. Ive been homeless for three months and he doesnt seem to realise that gambling has new lows he hasnt even dreamed of yet

Im not saying watch him suffer but the reality of life is that these loan companies will soon be bombarding him with phonecalls and knocking on his door. Thats what gambling leads to. Its no silly joke and he needs to see that very clearly. Gambling is no silly game and it has deadly consequences. Ive been there and I ended up selling my entire life gains so far....car, expensive hi fi and flat before the loan companies took it all away

He may not understand the real value of money or how hard it is to earn....indeed you say he already on tablets for stress and depression. I see gambling as a clear form of destruction and a cry for help. In my case it was really a cry for help

Its so difficult for you but you do need control. If you pay the loan and he keeps gambling like that nothing will be solved . £4500 will be out of your savings and you will be waiting for the day when it will happen again.

So take care and I wish you all the best

Its a learning process and you will learn a lot about how complex the addiction is

Best wishes

Hi arty05

The more i read through your story the more it made me realise how similar mine and your sons situation is. I am only 23 years old and are in the tens of thousands of pounds in debt from gambling. I wanted to write to you beacuse i never spoke to my mum about my gambling habit and i thought my comparisons i may have with your son may help you to understand a little more how he is feeling.

I suffered from depression and anxiety and borrowed money off family members to gamble. I also would speak to people and didnt tell anyone about my gambling habit and debts until recently. And when i did tell my mum, she didnt take it seriously, she couldnt *** how much my life had slid, so he already has a good start with you being fully understanding.

Just to offer my opinion about your original question regarding paying the debt off for your son, i do believe with what the other guys have said and that you shouldn't do it. I had friends and family lending me money to pay of my loans and instead of paying my loan debt on time i would just use the money to gamble in the hope i would win enough to pay what i had just borrowed. Then when i lost it, I would just be even further depressed and in the coming days my anxiety levels would reach new peaks because id be worried about how im going to pay all my debts. In short the more you borrow the more you'll gamble. Its only now that i have started paying debts back with my wages that i am slowly understanding the value of money again. I am also in a better state of mind and feel happier without the gambing.

Also dont think your the villain in all of this. You are the furthest person away from becoming a villain. I too like your son didnt speak to mum about my problems up until a month or two ago. Its not because i hated her even though my attitude towards her would have suggested different, on relfection its because i was ashamed of myself, embarrased at becoming the person i had, its a horrible lonely place to be in. My attitude towards my mum was digusting, i didnt want to hurt her but she was the easiest person to let off my steam on. The hardest thing to do is to tell your mum and dad, i dont really know how you would encourage him to talk to you more about it, personaly i just built up the courage one day to tell my mum and it was such a releif.

I dont know if it will help you but i have a story on the new member forum, its called 'Time to tell the truth'. It shold be on the first couple of pages of the fourm. Its my story of my addiciton. It may be useful.

All the best helping your son out, the sooner you get everything sorted the better it will be for you all so keep encouraging him.

To all those on here that have taken the time to reply.

I am so grateful for all of your advice and for sharing your experiences. I am unsure of exactly what I am going to do, the only thing I know is I will always be there for my son, and try to guide him in the right direction. I know that because I don't have a gambling problem, he will not necessarily think that I have any idea of what I am talking about. But at least I now have somewhere I can come for help and support, and that means such a lot. As wrong as I feel it sounds, it helps to know that we are not the only family dealing with this type of problem, it is widespread, and that helps me at least to feel less isolated.

Thank you again.

Welcome to forum Arty05,

Just to follow on from some of the financial and debt management adivce point of view from the forum users and the helpline service. You have taken a positive step by accessing the support of others and questionsing the motives behind loaning money and wether it is helpful or not, as mentioned by previous forum users lending a person who is problem gambling money will not resolve their problems but will make gambling more accessible.

If your son really wants to get support in changing his financial situation and debts, he can get information from debt advices services who can support him in setting up managable debt plans and arrange creditors to reduce interests.

Services such as ;

Money Advice Service tel: 0300 500 5000 www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk

National Debtline tel: 0808 808 4000 www.nationaldebtline.co.uk

Step Change (formerly CCCS) tel; 0800 138 1111 www.stepchange.org/

The helpline is also always here to provide further information of other services your son can access, and he is able to call us 7 days a week between 8am-midnight on 0808 8020 133.

Take Care

Forum Admin Team