Roulette

It's hard when you completely agree with the sentiments but then through experience it's understanding that the recovery process has to be selfish and about concentrating on number one.

Then maybe one day as the world invariably changes, sometimes for good/ sonetimws bad, but none the less nuggets can be passed down to future children of the world.

Passing the parcel a great game, teaches us to share.

I'm grateful to the fobt. I spent decades stuck in an addiction that was sustainable due to the low stakes. I only gained freedom from addiction by the fobt accelerating my descent into unmanageability. If they hadn't come along I would in all likelihood still be shoving a few hundred a week into a machine. I understand this is all quite raw for you still & you view gambling as a financial problem. It is a view I hear repeatedly from people new to stopping. The only way to teach future generations that addiction is not the answer is to show them how to cope with life in an adequate manner. When people have significant connection with others, purpose, love &understanding they tend not to seek it out on a spinning wheel /reel

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Dans slant seems to be unusual in that he is suggesting that FOBT introduction helped him into recovery, instead of wasting a few hundred a week or whatever so he is thankful for their proliferation. I am going to suggest your being disingenuous and your just choosing to play hardball with all the people who want to lay the blame away from their own door, by suggeting the industry is culpable, when of course they cant be held fully accountable can they .

I do agree with the sentiment they should be controlled and legislated more aggressively, but I also agree I have to take some personal responsibility too. I fall well short of thanking them for speeding me to where I am now.

You realise that casinos/bookies/online sites all work towards strategies that maximise the profit they are able to gain from their target audience and some even term this as working towards player extinction. This is effectively squeezing everything they can from an individual until that player/customer has no capability to contribute further. They of course sleep easy by then countering this with some token funding which they are required to make anyway as its a levy to support sites like this.

I tend to agree that whilst we are working towards recovery we cant get too hung up about and too carried away with the campaigning for fairer control. It is however like sayinn to a victim of gun crime that they should only concetrate on their rehabilitation and that the fact there are inadequate gun controls which led to them being a victim shouldnt be something to concern thmesleves with. Too black and white for me Dan im afraid. i think your GA self and real self need sometimes to be separated before you comment, but he ho anyone can say within reason anythign they want on here, even cliches and mistruths.

Its an interesting slant from day@atime but I agree with Manupnow above that its a hardball way of looking at things.

Just how much personal responsibility do we bear? They put four machines in per shop to rake the money in faster than ever. My earliest memory is a fruit machine in a chip shop in a sleepy village in Scotland.

I thought ooh what is there to do on this. I was hooked to some degree ever since. The manufacturers of these Bandits (and chip shop owner) know what they are doing. I was bored and it was offering a game board with flashing lights. Its no wonder people get addicted to them because there is a deep human psychology going on. After a lot of thought, I am not going to accept most of the responsiblity to control myself. I didnt put it there and would have carried on with my holiday ok without it

I also dont buy that it some say was ok on the horses and sports before the machines arrived. I dont see a healthy environment in bookies and there are clearly plenty of addicts on those "traditional" forms of gambling.

Maybe some of them did wake up with the higher losses on machines but theres no way I would thank the fobts for anything.

They are programmed to put a gambler in a trance as quickly as possible. Just as I was getting bored with the older style reel machines, that new breed came in. A (former I hope) machine player will know what I mean.. Im still working out how the sound of three bonus chances could mess up my life last year...the class A of gambling and boy do the designers know how to perfect extinction gambling

Anyway now self excluded and breezed two months so far with no intentions of gambling again

Are there ways of self exclude from all the betting shops, like you can with all UK casino's with one self exclusion form?

YoYoCasey x

Hardball? I would be interested to hear what you both think I'm trying to obtain. Disingenuous? Insincere, dishonest, deceitful, long time since I've had that levelled at me

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day@atime wrote:

I'm grateful to the fobt. I spent decades stuck in an addiction that was sustainable due to the low stakes. I only gained freedom from addiction by the fobt accelerating my descent into unmanageability. If they hadn't come along I would in all likelihood still be shoving a few hundred a week into a machine. I understand this is all quite raw for you still & you view gambling as a financial problem. It is a view I hear repeatedly from people new to stopping. The only way to teach future generations that addiction is not the answer is to show them how to cope with life in an adequate manner. When people have significant connection with others, purpose, love &understanding they tend not to seek it out on a spinning wheel /reel

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thats the bit that stuck in my throat... I think you have a degree of conditioning from GA that has become your persona for at least the purposes of posting in these boards. I stand by my comment, your not being honest when you say you are grateful for them, you are choosing the juxta position to those who wish to apportion some blame where it should rightly lie. Not all of it, and i do support the notion we must look inwardly and adress other issues also.

Proliferation of outlets and lack of control in gaming is known to increase problem gambling, lots of studies in america where they look at pathological/problem gambling cases and these increase where acess to gambling like legalisation of and opening of casinos within a closer radius occurs, then problem gambling increases.

Increased numbers of betting shops was fuelled by changes in legislation that allowed operators to open new outlets without demonstarting a demand for them. They would only do so if there were some profit to be garnered , this was only ever possible through machine play on FOBTS which accounts for circa 50-55% of their revenue streams. They also went for single staffing of shops to cut cost base to make it viable to have a greater presence.

Now if its known that greater access to "location" in the triangle we all look to keep broken is likely to create more problem gamblers, and this has come about becuase of a highly profitable and highly addictive and poorly legislated new gambling method, isnt it fair for some people to suggest that it is part of the problem and should never have been allowed to the degree it has ? look at Australia, where they have the highest problem gambling rates of any modern world country and also the whole country is awash with "pokies" their term for fobts.

Perhaps your grateful you found the strength to enter recovery. Thats not the same as being grateful for an insidious form of profiteering at the expense of vulnerable people even if that was the catalyst for you to enter recovery.

Oh and as for what are you tryign to obtain ? maybe a reaction, maybe a debate... i dont really know you or your motivations. i actually have read maybe 90% of your posts and i agree with a huge amount of the content, theres a few sticking points for me though and thats the its my/ga way or failure is guaranteed approach you seem to have. All must lead a value driven existence and work the steps or they are doomed.

day@atime wrote:

Hardball? I would be interested to hear what you both think I'm trying to obtain. Disingenuous? Insincere, dishonest, deceitful, long time since I've had that levelled at me

Nope. nobody is levelling that at you beyond an interesting and hardball way of writing it. You may have finally done something when heavier losses started but I wouldnt use the word "grateful" about anything with bookies machines.

we know what you are getting at and they may have been the reason you finally started a recovery process. Surely that is because your losses were extremely heavy using them and you could bear the pain no more. Theres nothing to thank as they were taking money so fast from you that the shock and the shame must have triggered a recovery process as you hit rock bottom.

Those evil machines took you out faster than anything. They may have shattered your normal delusions but we were all kidding ourselves anyway.

There are still plenty of people that are being cleaned out by those machines.

Anyway you have written some great things which is why I was surprised that you would word it like that

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O....k so on top of being called dishonest & deceitful & a bully , we are throwing I have been brainwashed by GA into the mix. I don't have one real persona & one GA persona. I have me. No problem with a different viewpoint & an adult exchanging of ideas. I'm not even that bothered by the negative adjectives used to describe my character. I am whether you choose to believe me or not, grateful to my addiction, without it I would be the man I used to be, a man that needed to hide in behaviours to get through life. A man who would rather engage with a machine than a fellow man. The fobt accelerated my

​ opening to the opportunity of change. It wasn't the cash it took from me that is relevant, it is all the important things it stripped from me, morality, dignity, self love, connection,I could go on & on. I needed to be stripped bare in order to evolve into what I hope is an honest, decent person. So yes, thankyou fobt.

Just a thought from a newbie...online slots was my only form of gambling...I could sit for 8 hours at a time zapping the spin button like a moron...maybe the sites could be advised by the gambling commision to impose time limits to play...just a thought...if warnings has flashed up at me every hour or so...it may have made me think...yes I am the one responsable for the gambling but I think these sites could do more to protect customers....anyway 20 days done...devices all blocked...no more of my money coming your way slot machine...long may my strength last

I'm not trying to get into a confrontation with either of you. Your clearly both intelligent individuals whose posts I find interesting in general. It is about perspective I suppose. Mine happens to just be different to yours. But let's leave the character assassinating out of it in future eh

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A very small tuppence worth.

My decent to a FOBT. It all started for me as a bricklayer losing my wage every week to 3 card brag. A fantastic player and great poker face but needed a sub every week!. Then I discovered the gee gee's and footie bets, I know my footie so a no brainer there! My ex knew I bet and always referred to me as tinny ( NZ slang ). As a couple I use to only do a £50 on a Saturday ( her belief, I knew better ).

The FOBT had been in the shops a good few years before I let curiosity get the better of me. Then, like most of us my descent became more like a train crash. I would of probably got away with it alot longer without FOBTs. So in a fashion I go along with Dan. One way or other I was heading for ruin, so a quick death was better than a slow death.

I don't think we can use other countries as Australia or Ireland in this particular debate, there not as corrupt as this Great country of ours.

So, I always come back to corruption makes the world go round and always will. So our energy needs to be put to good use and thats either taking complete responsibility and passing any nuggets on route.

A non conformist/ GA'S view.

Granted a slightly ignorant view as I haven't really got a clue about the Gambling commission and probably this small mind never will..

I think Dan is highlighting that attacking the Industry can often be another avoidance tactic used by gamblers. Or that's what I think anyway. Often people will rail hard against the industry, particularly in the early days of recovery. I'm concerned that this again is a struggle with difficult emotions - a struggle whereby shame manifests itself in anger.

The issue of gambling regulation is a valid concern, but IMO must come a distant second to your own recovery. Reform of the gambling system is outwith our control, we can however change ourselves.

I get Dan's point re gratitude to FOBTs. In my diary I have previously expressed similar sentiments re my gambling addiction per se. At first glance that might sound like happy clappy BS. But my point is that gambling is a symptom of mental suffering, in my case avoidance of difficult emotions and a deep seated feeling I wasn't good enough. At least my gambling addiction was something which got to the point where I (eventually!) had to deal with it. This had led me on a journey to the root causes - and then being able to live a life I want to live. I'm not sure I would've reached this position without the addiction.

Louis

Hi to everyone who has or has posted on this thread, when i jumped on the title and began to suggest regulating the fotb's further or the banning of them, I was hoping for a response, it has happened. I think all people's observations on this matter are interesting and worthy of respect. Mm judging people's character is not necessary. It was pointed to me that I was new to gamcare by dan, when in fact I joined before him, so my attempts to quit have been going on for some years. I think I am qualified to judge the evils of the FOTB. For me the answer is quite simple, if the FOTB had not been there, I would have found an alternative to relieve my boredom issues (but not one to destroy my financial future) who know's what. This boredom issue with mundane human existence is prevalent in the western society and it is getting worse, how we deal with it is an issue i don't feel qualified to comment on, however I feel that if the FOTB's were more regulated to say a £5 win per spin, people would walk away from them. They would seek their vices elsewhere, maybe these vices would not be as financially damaging. Keep posting all !