Killing the Zombie

That was an interesting talk Louis. Reminded me of the experiment which says don't think about an elephant...what's the first thing you find yourself thinking about? I like the idea of tracking cravings, acknowledging them rather than just ignoring them. Often when you read on here about someone having a relapse you can go back a few days or weeks and see that they were having cravings, but fighting them off. They then say that the relapse came out of nowhere, whereas in reality the cravings had been there they just had been busy avoiding them.

Thanks for sharing this. LB x

Just a flyer Louis.

Have never seen the Req of a dream film and maybe light reading, not a good terminology. But the book kept me glued and recognised alot of the deluded thought processes of am addict.

A cop out echoing of both Dan's and LB posts above.

Thanks for sharing.

Keep striving on. Paul

Hi Louis
Thanks for posting on my diary but believe me there is no contradiction. Yes I am a CG brought on by greed. I'm not being harsh on myself but why else do we place our first ever bet? Because we want to win more money, thats why I did it, not because I wanted to develop a steady decline into dependancy on slot machines to provide a rush, that was a learnt behaviour that I have since become powerless over.
I have been a CG since 2009 and have attended GA, Counselling, hypnotherapy and had numerous diaries on this site. I have seen the best and the worst of gamblers and witnessed people dying through gambling. I am in no way confused to what and where this illness has brought me to but I also think it's important that people's diaries are for the individual to post how they feel and want to write about themselves and not to be judged by anyone else.
I do value people posting to support but not to confuse an already difficult and treacherous time and place when we are in the early days of abstinence.
Rosie

Hi Louis

Thank you for that very generous offer and would like to take you up on it. I read the first few pages and want to pursue it futher. if I am serious about recovery then I will take all the help I can get and use all the tools possible, if this book can help just one aspect of my life then I would be a fool to turn it down. I will drop admin my contact details.I am glad you posted regardless if it was preachy or not(it wasnt by the way). Thank you again.

Rob

Hello Louis,

Another very very lazy post. In fact so lazy as I can't copy and paste on this phone, so I'm going to use Judy ( joans ) post to Dan, number 513 and send to you as well.

I enjoy your posts on ACT, even though very early days but I've seen the difference and im sure you have. And one day, I think I'll see the difference in me by following a similar concept..

Feed time. Laters

Louis,

The above post a rush but now a bit if time on my hands and thought firstly I like the questions you ask your self and your slant at things. Also, possibly introduce myself.

I may repeat myself but that doesn't matter. I got drawn to your diary in your return. More so, because you used your diary as a tool and in a fashion I was letting you do the leg work, with what led you to Social Anxiety and the workings of ACT. I noticed you originally kept your self to yourself and slowly grew as a person.

I guess there was also a connection in being a fellow migrant to London, I came from the flat Lincolnshire many moons ago, but then it was meant to be a work base. I also relayed to your treks and experiences. I had a kiwi Mrs for 16 years, so could relate to your TAB experiences. Funny enough I use to always use NZ as an escape, anothet avoidance technique. I also related to some thing you said about SE Asia and correct me if I'm wrong but your treks around. I spent many a time, sometimes months on end just watching the mighty Mekong, or riding the plains with Ghengis etc. I wondered if you, like me was using this also as an avoidance on trying to figure what was going on in your head, what with the gambling, weed, smoking etc and obviously the parylising Social anxiety. The Asia thing was where my bobenyahn came from in my 1st post I sent you.

I'm not sure where your from, for some reason I think Hull or thereabouts. And I don't know how long in London. A cool city as you know, a great city to hide even. But as I'm finding to my detriment now, it's also a place you can get stuck in. If you have your own place, well London life is easier. Something I use to have before I spunked my money. Not sure why I'm telling you that. As your head seems screwed on as you go into a new chapter of your life.

When I returned to my diary, I really had no intention of connecting with any one as I didn't want to get side tracked, but I couldn't help my self as some nice people. Its also a place that can be quite dangerous, that's maybe not the best word. But very emotional and even though I fail quite often im wary in posting to new comers. More for the reason that I wouldn't want to confuse them more than I am myself. Also, as you found recently to your detriment. I could remember when I first came amd use to think a bit of a f**k you, when someone who'd been round the block offered advice. I often use my experience as an amputee that some support needs to be filtered.

I think your doing a grand job for yourself and I know for many others. A GA line ' We are work in progress ' I think.

Also if curiosity ever kills the cat I would be honored to go to a London GA meeting, as long as it was SW. Kidding there, I'm open. & a pint!

All the best.

Paul

HI Louis , Just read your post to me and let me assure you none of it was meant about you , I don't read every post every day so I wasn't aware you'd made any poor comments , so before you unload on me with both barrels maybe keep that in mind and wind your neck in a bit ! .

This is the exact thing I'm talking about everyone seems to just want to argue the toss and not deal with the things that brings us together, I stand by what I said earlier that there's a hierarchy on this site who do pass judgement and will not deal with individual posts on there merit alone theyv'e been there done it and it's there way or no way ! . My post was in response to questions asked by LB& Paul this morning , LB hasn't responded although I felt it prob wasn't what she wanted to hear and we will still beg to differ on that one and that's fine , Paul however seemed to understand what I was getting at but that would be for you to discuss with him but you still felt duty bound to come storming in on the attack saying I'm being personally abusive , How ? when it's a generalisation an observation and when I haven't mentioned anyone by name and nor would I, all I said was people behave like someone who's a qualified therapist , , ?.

If you are happy to take advice about your back from a friend then thats your choice but I'm not talking about a dodgy back am I ?. I'm talking about people seeking help for gambling addiction , people who've got so low theres nowhere left to turn until they come here . If you feel upset by my post then I apologise to you , it wasn't aimed at you and I'm sorry you took it as such but you have to understand that what really worries me, is when a Newbie makes the transition from new members intros' onto the diary page and see's world war 3 going on , it's ridiculous !, they come here seeking refuge and inspiration to stop gambling just as I did a few months ago and are bombarded with opposing views from all sides , It's just a shame there isn't a set of basics to give them outlining what they should be aiming to achieve , like a welcome pack almost , instead of having so much information thrown at them from all angles ?.

I'm relatively new here by your standards and I'm a big boy so if you want to have a go then wade right in , also like you I've also been considering walking away from this , life's just too short and TBH I now really don't think I'm in a good position to comment anymore or have the knowledge to say the appropriate thing and that really doesn't help me or the cause .

So there you go Louis, as I said I'm sorry you felt I was attacking you, I wasn't and if your not happy with me , then thats your choice my friend !

One of my best mates visited this weekend. He was the one who, after I told him about my addiction, he immediately revealed his sexuality. It was a beautiful moment of mutual openess.

I'd lived with him for 5-6 years during my 16 year gambling career - he knows me as well as most. I said to him - don't you think it's mental that I was a gambling addict for all that time. That statement sums up where I've been for quite a while now. I'm kind of in 'wonder' at what happened. Not in terms of guilt or regret, just wonder at the totality of what happened.

As I can get more distance I inevitably get more detatched from the situation, but aside from distance I feel I've changed. Yet in spite of this its actually only 3 years in my past. And 3 years is f****n small amount of time in the grand scheme of things (16 years of gambling and 38 years of aliveness). This kind of 'w*f happened' feeling inevitably drives me into wanting to know more. Not so I can declare triumphantly declare X was the problem, it's more of tender inquisitiveness into my past.

As well as it being in my relatively recent past, I'm still connected with my gambling as the same emotions and thoughts are still there. The same ones which used to drive me to gambling still pop up and offer to take me on a free ride out of where I am, out of difficult feelings. Sometimes I get carried all the way before I realise what's happening, sometimes I'm half way there and then ...'ah.. I get what's going on here - thanks but I'm fine, I'm really OK', I hop off.

Beyond saying w*f happened, I'm not sure I can say more just now then I was struggling with myself.

Really no problem Louis , have a good nite and take care Buddy !

Question for you Louis re your 16 year gambling addiction. Was this your 1st compulsion, so what im getting to wad your correar longer, possibly with healthier compulsions or even just smoking/ weed etc

Also had a similar connection but different. Just before I came to this forum. I was being inducted on a new site at work by a big scary bulldog brute of a man, within 10 min of meeting him, he shared with me that he'd been clean for 3 years of alcohol and coke through AA. Straight away his vulnerability connected with me and within minutes I was telling him about my gambling, one of the 1st people I could ever talk to. I've known him for about 7 years now but unfortunately witnessed his train crash descent. Very sobering but too many horrors to face upto. Still a pal but at a distance.

P

Hi Paul

Thanks for stimulating my thoughts re early compulsions. Looking back I can see the social anxiety, fear of judgement thing being there from secondary school. But then I’m sure that was fairly standard for a lot of people at that age. Going from being king of my safe primary school, to an environment characterised by the threat of violence and where status was linked to how much you spent on clothes, how confident you were with girls or how ‘hard you were’ – that was always going to be a big jump.

Certainly I was doing the getting smashed with booze thing from 16 onwards. But this really was what everyone was doing, it was generally fun so I’m not sure how compulsive it was.

Uni continued with booze, a lot of weed and stronger stuff when clubbing and parties. Again, it’s what was happening, it was generally a good time. Although, saying that I think I’d started to lose my way at this point. I was being kind of hedonistic but having no plans whatsoever for what I was going to do in the future.

The uni lifestyle continued after uni. A few years after uni I split up with my long term ex. Although it was the right thing to do – in hindsight, I was pretty brutal in the way we separated. I sought a ‘clean break’ – proceeded into a series of relationships which should never have started. I think I’d become needy on relationships – thinking about this – the relationships were probably a way that I could avoid being with myself. Meanwhile the weed continued and the gambling escalated.

So really a cumulative thing for me rather than a dramatic event. I think this made it harder for me to look at what I was doing in an objective way.

Best

Louis

Thanks for the post Louis. I want to reply properly but no time at the mo. Just got home after being stuck in traffic for an hour and a half. Grrrr...fairly certain of my emotions at the moment!!

Will try and catch up tomorrow.

LB x

Hi Louis, hope you're well and thanks for last week. I've been thinking about your post to me regarding the physical sensations that arise from emotions. When I was having the anxiety induced knot in my stomach last week, I was able to stay with it and actually physically feel it. I didn't like the feeling and my instinct was to try and make it go away. After a while I did do some deep breathing to try to ease it. So a few things I wanted to ask...are you saying just sit with it and don't do any relaxation/breathing type things as eventually it will pass? or is not about getting it to pass?

It occurred to me that we are naturally geared to moving away from harm. Fight or flight is inbuilt as a protection and the anxiety/stress response is the physical sensation of the adrenaline that is released to make us get away quickly or stand and fight. It's a really powerful response ( not so much needed nowadays that we're not running away from tigers) but by paying it attention rather than getting it out of my system asap am I not "harming" myself in some way.

Also, I realised that I can physically feel certain emotions but not others. Stress and anxiety are def there as a stomach knot for me. The pain of my sisters death felt really physical, a deep pain in my chest, and the fear of flying is another one that brings on physical symptoms. These are all "negative" emotions and may all derive from the same base emotion(fear,anxiety) and the same adrenalin response. As I was thinking about it though I realised that there were few "positive" emotions that I felt in such a physical way. I can be happy and excited but I'm not sure I feel that as a physical thing...which is a bit of a worry! Does that make sense to you? Happy, positive emotions tend to feel more muted and as I'm typing this I'm wondering if that's because the chemicals they release are less powerful?? Also, I remember that the feeling when I knew I was going to gamble was a really strong physical one, especially if I hadn't done it for a while. I can remember telling the gamcare counsellor that I could feel it in my head and behind my eyes, like my eyes were actually lighting up. I'm sure that was connected to a chemical release of some sort. Anyway, thanks for that food for thought.

LB x

Hi LB - thanks for post. Nice to read a bit of adult posting after last week - I will reply soon.

Truth is after last week's aggro, and alan135's firing into the crowd in particular, I've reappraised my involvement with this site. Sometimes you need a wake up call.

Admittedly last week I was ill so on this site more than usual - but I've always seen my interest in this site as somewhat compulsive. it was easily justifiable though -so long as I was 'building up the days'. Why break something that works. I feel more confident in my recovery than ever, so I think its time to deal with this.

As alan pointed out on my diary, I imagined him attacking me - when in fact it seems he had a problem with one specific poster. This shows the dangers of living, and spending too much time in, a virtual bubble.

Unlike with gambling and smoking, I don't need to cut this forum out of my life. Zero tolerance does not apply. It's more a question of moving away from compulsion. can I become a 'responsible forum member'? lol

Louis

Lol Louis, yes I think we all know where the anger of that post was directed. If one is to stick their head over the parapet, you have to accept your going to get shot at once in a while. Keep posting what you believe in Louis.