Thanks for the posts Oldham and ODAAT.
Oldham - maybe you have a point that we stake what we have available but based on my wage at 19 not increasing except for cost of living as you mention, my stakes couldnt have gone too much higher, and certainly wouldnt have gone into the hundreds, my wage wouldnt have allowed a huge overdraft and large credit card balances, huge loans etc, eventually leading to re-mortgaging, so I simply wouldnt have got into the state of debt I've been in before and am now in again following my recent relapse.
ODAAT - your quote 'Recovery is more than abstaining, it's about addressing our problems, retraining our brain & making peace with ourselves, including our past.' is excellent, I will save that one. And I had done all that for the last 3 years prior to last month. So I have been at a crossroads over the last few weeks as to whether my relapse means I need to change anything. I got a strong message on Thursday to indciate I just need to get back on the same road I was on but put extra blocks in place to avoid the chance of relapsing again. Agreed I need to be proud of myself before my family can be - gonna take some time for that I know.
Captain... my son (recovering CG of 9 years) was constantly saying to us "I will make you proud of me". I never wanted to feel pride in him or who he was ... all I ever wanted was for him to love himself and be at peace.
Just an FYI watching a loved one try controlled betting which is the very thing that destroyed their life in the first place is c**P. It makes it hard to support as it doesn't make sense. No I am not an addict and will never understand but watching a young man virtually destroy himself (and inadvertantly our family) for almost 9 years does give me some street cred.
Cathyx
Thanks Cathy acknowledge your experience and sorry to hear about your son. Continuing to consider and review my options.
Captain.
Fella I read your thread a few times today and it gave me great food for thought. I believe that the key is acceptance, when we accept what is acceptable for our own lives we can then build foundations on them. I have an understanding of what I have to do myself and I can build upon my failings and strengths in equal measure.
I fed a machine with a totally random outcome with an attitude that I was in control, I accept that the outcome cannot be studied, I accept that the machine has the odds in its own favour, I tried in vain to follow patterns and the outcome eventually was the machine ruled my every thought, I would spend hours fixated on numbers, ones with a totally random outcome. Couple this with an inner switch of sorts where I would totally zone out and eventually pursue loss,to end the episode whether I won or lost I would play until my available funds were completely depleted.
Studying my own gambling life I would often use sports betting to enhance my available funds to play a machine, it started with fruit machines and ended with the fobt,for me I craved the physical interaction hand in hand with the emotional interaction, both equalling to my complete encapsulation.
I used to envy folk who could enjoy a sports bet and nothing more, because they on the surface appeared to enjoy the challenge of studying form and would have a fair chance of winning because for me the outcome of sports bets just didn't deliver the 'buzz'
the sad truth of that is relived by my wife, I won a high four figure sum on a 50p stake once and in her words I was emotionless on the outcome, in fact I gambled a large chunk of it upon picking it up in an fobt,all with an arrogant swagger that the money was immaterial.
I was as I said envious of the sports gamblers and in return I know that they often loathed folk like me, I had no standing or respect in my local bookies, I was just another fool who fed the machines and lowered the tone of the place.
I accept that they were right, I didn't have a decent bone in my body,truthfully I was deceitful, disrespectful and arrogant to everyone, most of all myself.
I think you see it from both sides of my fence, I would believe that you have yourself experienced both sides.
The bottom line is you are the only one who can decide what's acceptable for your life. I think a life without gambling is not what you desire and I am not going to judge you for the path you tred.
I will state to you what I believe is a pertinent fact, our past is exactly that, it is what forms us and educates our futures but we would all be foolish to live in it.
I used to start two out of three sentences with the words 'I bet' because I gambled willingly on everything, I had little measure and was irrational and uncaring, gambling didn't make me become that character but it without doubt elivated those personality traits and through recovery I have sort a more measured life.
I am glad you are still posting as it would appear that like myself you are learning and gaining the therapy you desire.
I wish you well and hope you continue to halt treading the destructive path you found yourself upon.
I believe that for your efforts you deserve to find what it is you seek.
Warm regards
Duncan.
Thanks for taking time to read some of my diary Duncan and for the post which is very well thought through.
I agree with you on the acceptance point. I thought I had reached acceptance and was living my life as I should be and wanted to over the last 3 years, having put past regrets and mistakes behind me.
You are absolutely right I have experienced both sides, that of a sports gambler and that of someone gambling on any old race which happened to be running at the time. As I have said many times on here, betting on sports in advance has never in itself given me a problem. I would go into the bookies, having pre-selected my bet on an advance event, based on having a reasonable amount of knowledge and having reviewed form. These advance bets were always of amounts I could afford to lose. I would on those occasions go in, place the bet and be back out in 5 minutes. And Yes I would look at those standing watching races on screen or those sitting at the machines and think ' thats not for me, I dont do that'. Of course, on numerous other occasions and for various periods of time over the years, due to stress, boredom, work issues, etc etc., I have lots of excuses, none of which are justifiable, I have been one of those people I ridiculed and stood and bet hundreds at a time on whatever dog, horse or virtual race was running, based on a quick 30 second look at form or picking a name or number. The advance sports bets gave me an enjoyable hobby, great when I won, not the end of the world when I lost. The 'random' gambling, as I call it, gave me an escape, gave me an immediate 'buzz' on days I won and on those days helped me to deal with whatever stress I was under, but ultimately enabled me to lose all my money and more based on all forms of credit available to me.
You are right when you describe the respect element, when you just go in and place an advance bet or collect winnings on one of those bets, you have respect of those in that environment. When doing that one comes across as being in control, and key, not showing emotion. Thats the reverse when standing gambling on everything that moves, showing frustration, anger, shouting, swearing, throwing things around etc., showing lots of mostly negative emotion, making a complete fool of myself, gaining no respect whatsoever.
I have been the respected gambler for periods in the past, and certainly for the last 3 years to October. I have been the complete fool for many other periods. You are right I dont want a life without gambling but I could not have foreseen my recent disastrous relapse so right now I need to consider all my options.
I am continuing to post at the moment as to be frank, without Gamcare I dont have any other means of support. I do feel that needing support is a failure on my behalf having gone through a complete recovery previously. But just getting back in the driving seat and doing that I did for the last 3 years hasnt proved possible so far. A lot of what I have experienced during the last month on here is predictably repetitive but I have managed to gain some value from interacting with people on the diaries and the chat. On some occasions I have joined chat I have ended up looking to help others and gained little myself, of course I am happy to help others if I can.
Also with helpful pointers from others and my own searches I have uncovered the following which are new to me:
I am a sad, penitent man.
Just for today no random gamble
I want to make my family proud of me not ashamed.
Still caught between thoughts of whether it would be ok to put my relapse behind me and go back to what I was doing for the last 3 years ( although my head isn't in a place to do that right now ) or whether this has set me back such that I am now no better than some others on here who have only just admitted their problem. I don't think I could face having to go through all the recovery stages again, don't think I need to.
I am a sad, penitent man.
Just for today no random gamble.
Been thinking a lot about different opinions of whether things like the lottery and scratch cards affect a compulsive gambler. If one buys a huge number of either of these and is totally obsessed by winning then it's obviously a problem but if you just buy one lottery ticket a week or an odd scratchcard and it doesn't affect anything else then no harm done. So it may follow for me if I put one football bet on each Saturday and nothing else then I won't have a problem. Food for thought.
Why can't you manage without the lottery card /scratch card / stray football bet? Why does total abstention make you uncomfortable? What are you missing out on by not placing the bet?
It's the itch that you need to scratch by placing a bet that's the problem.
CW
Cant disagree with you CW - I need to scratch the itch as you suggest - since I admitted a problem in 2008 I have gone through various forms of recovery but I am yet to reach a point where I want to eliminate all gambling, never mind be able to. I just know that the examples I quoted on their own do not cause me a problem. By eliminating the football bets I take away a hobby. What I need to be able to do is remove the dependency on use of other forms of gambling as an escape route when I am unable to deal with life's problems. I did this for 3 years so I should be able to do it again. What benefit would I get from total abstinence for any period of time if I then leaned on gambling as a crutch next time I have an issue which I cant cope with?
We're at cross purposes. You're talking about ways and means of scratching the itch but I'm suggesting that you consider why the itch exists and what it's a symptom of.
CW
No CW I understand what you are saying and thanks for your input. A great quote from Dan on one of the debates threads is 'Make me feel better stop me feeling bad. Addictions two primary purposes.' I dont smoke, drink or take drugs but I assume all addictions are the same - the addict wants to feel better and/or stop feeling bad. The 'drug' of choice provides this to whatever degree but there are huge negatives for those who cannot use moderately and become compulsive or addicted.
So anyone who partakes in any of these 'drugs' is scratching an itch, needing an escape, needing a buzz, wanting to feel better.
What I'm describing is that for me I have found that I can scratch the itch in some gambling activity without it leading to a problem, whereas with other types it has caused me huge financial, social and health problems and for others and has been a huge negative, in fact a disaster.
Every individual will have different histories as to why they began being involved in gambling and their own stories about how soon and to what extent it became a problem. For me personally, without going into too much detail, one day I heard a conversation about someone winning money predicting football results. That sounded appealing, I thought 'I could do that', I was about 15. For the next maybe 6 years I bet on football and progressed to horse racing and it was a completely harmless hobby and I only bet very small amounts and nothing I couldnt afford to lose. Significant events in my life, some my own fault through bad decisions and some just bad luck, meant I had pressures I found hard to cope with, more free time and activities I participated in disappeared. Unfortunately I chose to use gambling to fill time and as an escape from the pressures.
Fast forward nearly 30 years I have been to hell and back a few times with huge debts. So currently contemplating whether to 'scratch the itch' with small affordable stakes once or twice a week or try a period of complete abstinence and see where that takes me.
My time has come to stop. Life will never be the same again. Acceptance.
"if I put one football bet on each Saturday and nothing else then I won't have a problem. Food for thought."
Why you are on this site at all is food for thought.
Hi captain,
Even though you've taken a bit of flack recently, well done for coming back. In doing so, you've bought yourself enough time to think clearly away from the demon gambling voice it seems.
I didn't really struggle with sports betting as such (never gambled more than I could afford to) but even in the end a £2 acca made me feel a certain way - an anxious/restless way I no longer wanted to feel anymore. It was just part of the whole cycle for me - that feeling I had when that lost probably spured me onto slots/online etc later that day.
Everyone is different, but us compulsive gamblers are mostly the same. Once we start, whether it be 20p,50p it will progress before we even know it - we'll even rationalise it in our minds as if it is normal. In the same way I started playing 5p/10p slot machines for fun in my teens hoping to win a fiver eventually ended up doing £125/250 a spin hoping to win thousands 15 years later! We will never win because we cannot stop. (such a true statement)
Is that odd football bet really gonna be worth it? At the risk of triggering something in you that might make you more at RISK of going on an online gambling bender at somepoint - leaving a devasting trail that we know all too well.
ODAAT(Kelly's) comment earlier is spot on: 'Recovery is more than abstaining, it's about addressing our problems, retraining our brain & making peace with ourselves, including our past.'
If you are not 100% abstaining can you really focus 100% on truly addressing the other stuff?
P.s Hope you take this post the way it is intended, to be helpful.
Captain
Stay away from any bet. It's the only way......
Good luck
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