taking my life back

P.S.

I DID manage to get those prescriptions...it all worked out.

Hey Peg!

Bet Einstein, Shakespeare, and Ghandi weren't Earth people either!

Lots of love from the unplanet Pluto,

Kerrie

(Hey on a bad day, are we living in Uranus?)

Hi peg

glad it worked out. my will power is not enough has arrived - have started to read and so far so good. will keep you posted.

enjoy your trip away, claire xxx

girl's trip was great....the OTHER half of the women that usually go have moved their trip to September (we missed our May trip two years running, due to hurricanes) so I get to go back in a few months with them 🙂

I was just reading Murray's story in overcoming problem gambling...lots to think about...

regarding how life was when I was gambling...making it sound all gloom and doom when it really wasn't that way.

hmmmm

well, for *me* I would have to say that my life *looked* great..from the outside...of course, I did a great deal to make it appear that way...but THAT was the illusion...

I mean, I wasn't homeless...I had my family still...I had food, clothing, shelter...things weren't really THAT bad I suppose...but the truth is...it was a very rare occasion that I was able to enjoy myself if I wasn't sitting at a machine...almost always...if I wasn't gambling...I was THINKING about how or when I could next gamble...I gambled every single day for as long as I possibly could.

my gambling experience is different from many descriptions that I hear.

Before I began gambling (regularly) I had more money than I ever thought I would...CERTAINLY more than I needed...so that was one more justification for me to go...I could AFFORD to...I just wanted to sit there and numb, and yeah, it would cost me a few hundred or a few thousand even, but, no biggie. I just wanted to push the button push the button push the button.

We had a lot of money but it was not a bottomless pit...eventually our savings was gone..then I began to make withdrawals against credit cards...we were also living an extravagant lifestyle, which I had to continue, so I wouldn't draw suspicion.

That 'high' never eluded me. If I sit down at a machine right now I will be right back there...euphoria...the thing is...I cannot sit there forever, and when I walk away from that machine...well, what goes up must come down...but...even if i COULD sit there forever...if I had an endless supply of money and could just sit there and push that button and remain in my bubble...I don't WANT to! oh...there is a part of me that does...a part of me that knows how good it feels and doesn't care about anything else...and that part still whispers to me..but I have found ANOTHER part of me...my wise self? my spirit? and the stronger that part of me becomes ? the more satisfying my life is ? the less enticing that bubble becomes.

but that's just me.

Hi Peg,

Sounds like you had a great holiday. Nice to see you back, I missed you!

Gotta say, most of my cg was pretty bleak - sure, I got the euphoric "bubble" (altho not at the end), and really, the financial damage is quite small - I have really only around $1500 debt left. Part of why it was so bleak for me was the guilt and shame... and the knowledge that i was in the grip of an addiction. It's like I was "gambling with awareness". I knew what was happening to me, I knew it could only get worse, but i felt (well I knew!) I was powerless to stop.

Its the second step - I was missing the "power greater than myself". Since coming to the forum - you guys, and oftentimes you in particular, Peg, and what we are doing by sharing the ol' experience, strength and hope - this has become the power greater than myself. I was lucky - I've found it again.

Thanks again for being here. Thankyou for your kindness, and your sharing. Couldn't do it without ya, kiddo!

Love you,

Kerrie

Hi peg

glad you had a nice time, u deserve a break. thanks for the post on my diary. still here, still fighting the good fight 🙂

take care, claire xxx

Hi Peg, glad you had a fun time, and get to do it again later in the year!!! wey to go.

Just been reading your post on May 23rd and it hit a nerve. Everything you said made me decide to give any of those "whispers" a good thrashing and not let them stop me in quitting.

Hugs Joy x

Here is a post that I wrote in response to another user...thought I might want to refer to it later...or someone else may find the information useful so am duplicating the post here ...love to all xoxoxo

((Josh))

I knew this would take me a while to write...so I did it in a word document and geez...I went on and on...hope this helps...

So I read a lot of books and articles, both pro and con, and did a good bit of investigating, as well as attending a whole lot of those mandatory Twelve-Step meetings, both Alcoholics Anonymous and n*******s Anonymous.

The material says “The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop (drinking/gambling)”. The only time that meetings are ‘mandatory', to my knowledge, is when they are court ordered (and even then...aa/ga could care less if you're there...that's between you and the courts). My g.a. book recommends 90 meetings in 90 days for new members, but at least one full meeting per week. It has been my experience that each person in the program determines what they need, in the way of meetings….I know people who attend several per week…and many who do not. I attend one meeting per week, unless I am unable. I attended one meeting per week, even during my first 90 days.

But you will find out that what Wilson really means by that is that you must spend all of your time recruiting and indoctrinating new members for Alcoholics Anonymous.

The material says “It is a program of attraction rather than promotion”. I gambled for years and years in casinos, bars, restaurants, I was NEVER approached by anyone in g.a. My first encounter with anyone from g.a. was when I voluntarily walked into a g.a. meeting. If…explaining the program at a meeting that someone voluntarily walked into, and obviously has an interest in, is recruiting… hmmmmm

Also, Josh…I have thought quite a bit about this orange paper thing since I reviewed the site…am wondering….if it is a cult…if their purpose is to recruit and build up the numbers…why? I mean…there is no charge…most people in my group give $1 per week…IF they have it…if not, no problem…many of the g.a. groups in my city are not even able to pay the small amount of rent for their room…in that case, the rent is waived (by the church that allows us space in their meeting rooms). I have never met anyone from the church, by the way…as a matter of fact…I know the NAME of the church but I don't know anything else about it…I am assuming it is Christian..as most churches in my city are, but truthfully, I don't know. The church where some of our meetings are held is in no way related to our meetings.

A.A. assures the students that they will get good results from working the program, if they are willing to go to any length to get sobriety, and if they really try, but the truth is that they almost invariably will not get the promised results. A.A. has a failure rate that ranges from 95% to 100%.

I have never heard members referred to as ‘students'. The program is a spiritual one. Here is what the AA big book promises:

Page 83---discussing step 9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

If we are painstaking about this phase of our development, we will be amazed before we are half way through. We are going to know a new freedom and a new happiness. We will not regret the past nor wish to shut the door on it. We will comprehend the word serenity and we will know peace. No matter how far down the scale we have gone, we will see how our experience can benefit others. That feeling of uselessness and self-pity will disappear. We will lose interest in selfish things and gain interest in our fellows. Self-seeking will slip away. Our whole attitude and outlook upon life will change. Fear of people and of economic insecurity will leave us. We will intuitively know how to handle situations which used to baffle us. We will suddenly realize that God is doing for us what we could not do for ourselves.

Are these extravagant promises? We think not. They are being fulfilled among us – sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly. They will always materialize if we work for them.

The treatment programs which are based on the Twelve-Step religion and are run by the Twelve-Step true believers -- which means about 93% of all of the drug and alcohol treatment programs in the U.S.A. -- do little more than xerox off Alcoholics Anonymous and n*******s Anonymous training (indoctrination) materials and read it to people in "group therapy" sessions, and then send the people to three or more A.A. or N.A. meetings per week (maybe even 90 meetings in 90 days for rapid indoctrination). That unethical behavior is being financed with the public's tax money and health insurance money. And that is a crime.

12 step religion? lol

what denomination is it, i wonder...I know many people in g.a. who all attend different churches..and some who claim to be athiest or agnostic and have been in the program for years...are they in on this cult-religion thing somehow?

it IS a spiritual program...but how you manage YOUR spirituality is your concern (i.e. what God you worship..whether you attend a church, etc....no one at g.a. has ever asked me who my higher power was or if i had one).

Tradition seven says “"Every A.A. group should be self-supporting, declining outside contributions." ..the author must be referring to the alcohol and treatment programs here..which he also seems very angry at.

"I tried everything, the V.A. program, the Christian Brotherhood, and finally, A.A. is what worked."

"The thing you seek always seems to be in the last place that you look."

That made me chuckle. I always thought that that was because…once I find it..I stop looking! lol

I dunno, Josh, there is a lot of info on his site…honestly, I didn't have the inclination to read more than a bit of it…I was, however, interested in some of his personal accounts of his experience….and the bit that he talks about..about a youth group where younger female members were being sexually molested by older members…this is my experience:

I am sure that there are good groups and bad groups…good people and bad….

There are bad people everywhere…is the entire Catholic religion a farce because some individuals participated in some horrific acts? Not in my opinion….there will always be people with their own agenda, sadly, in any organization.

There are also well-meaning people who do a disservice to the organization…sadly, I am one of those people some of the time…sometimes I *think* I know something…and I repeat it…only later to discover that, perhaps I shouldn't have said that…yikes…I am human…I am learning…..I do, however, know many people in the program who have been there for years and years, who, it seems to me, do not embody what the program is about…but that's ok…we are all there for one common purpose..to stop gambling…if they have stopped and they are ok with where they are…wonderful for them!!!

I have been told many things in meetings…slogans, etc. which I do not believe to be true…”Meetings make it” for example…I think that's b.s. I know many people who attend meetings…who still relapse…the orginal a.a. literature says that I must work the steps…find a power greater than myself ….have a spiritual awakening….

Many people are able to not gamble without doing these things. *I* was able to not gamble for 22 months without doing these things…but a day came…when I began to gamble again.

The peg-program didn't work.

That guy says that aa has a 95% failure rate. I seriously doubt that he (or anyone) has good numbers for that…but...I wouldn't argue with that…my own experience is that 95% of the people who walk into the rooms of g.a. (or more) do not end up working the steps…I know a few people…not too many…but a few…who *do* seem to be recovered via the program AND these people seem so happy to me…

I want what they have.

I'm going to give their way a shot.

Regarding my g.a. program…I know many people who are very involved in the organization…to the point where other g.a. members make up the majority of their friends..they attend g.a. parties, picnics, etc. It's a wonderful thing for them.

I don't need or want that in my life. My life is full. I have responsibilities, friends, family…I want to spend my time with them.

I attend weekly meetings, when I can make it…I donate $1 per meeting…if the group is having a hard time meeting rent, I will donate more…all money is accounted for by the treasurer at each meeting. After I made 90 days clean-time, I took on a position for my group where I attend one monthly meeting…a big part of the program is ‘service to others' so I perform this service for my group.

I believe that the individuals who attend my weekly meeting may or may not benefit from my presence… I cannot conceive of any way that the organization, itself, benefits from my being there (ummm…I have purchased a few books…less than $20 worth)…what do they gain???

I seek people out locally and online…NOT like those well-meaning people…people who ‘got it'…I have found a few…I learn from them…there are all sorts of online resources…just started listening to some tapes…speeches from conferences, etc….very very good information.

I don't know what *you* need, Josh… some people do NOT need g.a. (although…those well-meaning people will tell you otherwise)… most of us, even the ones that DO need g.a., at some point, try to do it without the program…try to do it ourselves…

I did NOT want to attend meetings…I did NOT want to go to g.a. … I didn't know what else to do… given where I have been…given what gambling has done to me…given the fact that I was destroying my life…I am not willing to not try the ONLY thing that I know to do based on someone else's bad experience.

You said…in YOUR experience “unfortunately the people in meetings don't really allow you to do that.”

I would check out some other meetings.

But that's just me.

It's an individual journey…just sharing a bit of mine.

Enjoy yours!

P.s.

just found this at official aa site:

What A.A. Does Not Do

A.A. does not:

1. Furnish initial motivation for alcoholics to recover

2. Solicit members

3. Engage in or sponsor research

4. Keep attendance records or case histories

5. Join “councils” of social agencies

6. Follow up or try to control its members

7. Make medical or psychological diagnoses or prognoses

8. Provide drying-out or nursing services, hospitalization, drugs, or any medical or psychiatric treatment

9. Offer religious services

10. Engage in education about alcohol

11. Provide housing, food, clothing, jobs, money, or any other welfare or social services

12. Provide domestic or vocational counseling

13. Accept any money for its services, or any contributions from non-A.A. sources

14. Provide letters of reference to parole boards, lawyers, court officials, social agencies, employers, etc.

I believe over the next couple of decades a more appealing structured alternative to GA is likely to be developed if GA doesn't act now and move with the times.

If GA reviewed and changed their 12 steps program they would have many more members and consequently many more people would overcome their gambling addictions. Perhaps there is more to GA than just overcoming your gambling addiction, and this may be the reason for not changing, I don't know.

Wow!

The last cuople of posts e*e interesting, peg! (Altho I probably should have looked back further... what did i miss?)

Altho I haven't attended GA, as i've said before - spent many years in other rooms. I absolutely agreed with everything you said. The 12 Traditions absolutely ensures the ethical conduct of the fellowships. The most helpful priciple for the individual member is anonymity - the idea of "principles before personalities". Hey, this has been useful in every aspect of my life!

The steps had become such an ordinary part of my life (until my world went mad!) that i find myself turning back to them unthinkingly, almost. And then thinking about them! I don't know really why this is so, but... well.. they SOUND hard, but it's really simple, really basic stuff.

They don't make us perfect, they don't "fix" us, they treat our addiction - like Cbt - or insulin for diabetics.

My reluctance to go to meetings (apart from the geographic and scheduling constraints) has nothing to do with doubts about the programme or the steps. Its more that i feel like I simply don't have the energy - Oh, that's because of geographic and time constraints!lol! Its also because i promised myself I'd had the god discussion for the last time - hmmm. Maybe not.

Peg, it is partly your influence, me thinking about this stuff again! It's inspiring, thankyou.

Love,

Kerrie

TTNY -- I've been looking. There *are* alternatives out there now.

* * *

(((Kerrie)))

this post was one that I duplicated from the GA and Gam-Anon area...a thread over there entitled Big Book of AA.

the God discussion...it's strange...for years...I have been turned off by the God discussion...the program was uncomfortable for me for years..the higher power thing. Honestly, I didn't have many nice things to say (or think) about all that God stuff and all of those 'Godly' people...just recently, though...things have begun to happen in my life...well, let's just say that I am seeing things differently 🙂

xoxox

Hi Sweetie,

Coincidentally, i read some of the thread last night after I posted to you - and of course, got involved in the god discussion (lol!)

Whilst initially i struggled with the "god question" for a while, I was lucky to get some guidance with that some years ago - so i've ended up quite happy about it - but it's controversial for some. Funny how things link up - "princples before personalities" popped into my head yesterday - the simplest way to say this is... two or three personalities felt that they needed to force me to think differently, and i put up with it for a long time... This is very much my problem, peg.... I would really hate to caste the programmes, groups or steps in a bad light... it is partly where the "lack of energy" comes from - I got sick of people trying to change my mind! Sadly, most members were supportive of me, as I was of them.

I quite enjoy the whole thing writing and reading about it online - but I remain a bit reticent, as some of the aforementioned 'personalities' felt my views could be harmful to the new members. They (the personilities) were offended by me... I found it interfered with my relationships with sponsees... actually it was pretty f*****, a bit of a shame, and i was probably unlucky, because if i had access to the wider membership, I would have possibly come across more members who felt the same.

Have been looking for some online GA - a forum style meeting would be great! You've seen how slow I am in chatrooms! lol. Might have to look at other fellowships - but i feel like it would be a bit rude, as i don't really qualify now. I would like the experience of the rooms again - I think it needs to be GA - it just seems impossible at the moment. If you have any ideas, i would be grateful.

Thanks again, Sweetie, for your thought provoking, interesting posts. All of this is really helping me to return to the Kerrie i love.

Lots of love and hugs to you,

Kerrie

the safe harbor site has online meetings..the schedule is listed on the page where you enter chat.

they are NOT G.A. meetings...G.A. does not hold meetings on line..still, they are helpful (while I love G.A., I am open-minded enough to include other tools in my recovery).

some g.a. people there will push face to face meetings (they think everyone needs them because THEY need them...they are trying to help) but there are many people there..some have been there for YEARS who do not attend g.a.

when people push their opinions on others...I see this as the 'old' way...not the way I do things now...working recovery has given me that 🙂

working recovery has given me lots of things!

ya know...if i had just attended my local meetings there is NO WAY I would be where I am now...I have learned a lot more about the program from people and online sources...

I'm in a good place 🙂

xoxoxo

love to you ((kerrie))

Hi Peg!

I can be thick sometimes! I remember seeing the meeting schedule now (on safe harbour)... it just hadn't sunk in to my consciousness! Thankyou.

By the by, sometime in the wee hours of this morning I read a post saying you wer.. I can't remember the phrase... but it was something like a shining example... I would like to second that motion.

Lots of love to you,

Kerrie

WOW GO PEG!!!!!!!!

7 MONTHS

YOUR AN INSPIRATION

BOB