DaveUK - New Diary

Day 9:-

A new day - am going to do some work to try and understand why I gamble. I thought it was just about money but may be much deeper than that. Just saying 'I wont do it again is not enough'.

Reading my previous postings has been really helpful this week - it was quite a shock to realise how long my win, lose, stop, start, win, lose stop, start gambling cycle has been going on.

I need to understand why it keeps happening and why I also behave in a certain way with other aspects of my life.

Well time ticks on and no roulette machine today.

I am particularly pleased as I had the whole afternoon to myself so could have easily gone in - and would not have had to make up any excuses to the family for going out!

I realise more than ever that I need to break the cycle and also how ever much I try I will always put my winnings back - plus more.

So 10 days complete and looking forward to understanding more about what drives me to play the roulette machines in the first place.

Day - 11.

Been to a carol service this afternoon which was good.

I did not used to gamble too often on a Sunday as no excuse to go out and having a religious background it always felt much worse gambling on a Sunday.

Hi Dave

I'm glad you didn't find my most recent post encouraged you to gamble again ( lol )

We can all go round in endless circles trying to analyse why we do certain things and sometimes I think it can do more harm than good. Some people - usually famous celebrities - find themselves virtually tied to a very expensive pyschiatrists couch searching for enlightenment and still never find it. Maybe that will be the case with this strange couple if we become too concerned with our psyche.....

I'm curious regarding your many years interest and participation in gambling. Do you still enjoy playing fruit machines as well as FOBTS ? Judging by your relatively small losses to date I'm assuming you must have abstained for considerable periods - or spent very small sums - so might it be an idea to get your ' fix ' by playing only fruit machines from now on ? Obviously the larger potential gains from FOBT's makes the fruit machine option much less attractive but even with your sensible attitude to money it does guard against larger potential losses too.

Has horse or dog racing ever appealed to you ? This might be even less of an attraction with much less mesmerising ' playing speed ' than fruit machines, never mind FOBTs, but it might satisfy your gambling needs when they arise. Attending a good race meeting can be a very enjoyable day out even if you don't have a bet.

I think I'm right in saying that you've only become concerned over your behaviour since FOBTs reared their ugly heads. That said your losses have been on a small scale compared to most so that would suggest that even when playing FOBTs you do remain in control overall. You seem to be able to stop before things escalate completely out of control which must be a good thing, musn't it ?

A common thread running through your posts is that you find it difficult to accept losses. Was there the same reluctance to accept losses when gambling before FOBTs ? If that was the case then your small losses over the years on fruit machines clearly shows you let it pass and remained in control then too.

Dave, I really do think you have very little to worry about regarding your overall gambling but as FOBTs are presenting such a challenge to your own peace of mind I'd said it's safer for you to avoid them and instead have a dabble on ' safer ' forms of gambling which you've proved in the past don't cause you any personal harm.

I don't want to sound complacent here - people of far greater intelligence than me have come unstuck - but if I'm reasonably comfortable with my own gambling lifestyle involving much greater sums than yours then surely there should be no reason for you to be so worried ?

I do hope you can find a way to get this FOBT monkey off your back very soon....

With very best wishes

Blackjack

Hi Dave,

I don't want to hijack your diary - and I hope you're doing well my friend.

I really need to raise objection to BlackJack's approach.

Blackjack - can I question you on this point. When you write the following:

"I don't want to sound complacent here - people of far greater intelligence than me have come unstuck - but if I'm reasonably comfortable with my own gambling lifestyle involving much greater sums than yours then surely there should be no reason for you to be so worried ?"

First off - can I ask why you are a member of Gamecare - and spend so much time here - if you are, as you put it, "reasonably comfortable" with your gambling lifestyle.

I feel that perhaps because the 'money' you are wagering is far higher than most you are placing yourself on a gambling pedastol a little.

Dave does not need to 'get his fix' from another gambling activity. He does not need to replace the FOBT addiction with a 'lesser form' of gambling...simply put...gambling is gambling.

Whether it's fruit machines, horses or the X Factor results show - any wager placed onto something in order to 'win' money is a road leading to no good for anyone who has sought this website for help. The 'winnings' are only temporary and any 'fix' needs removing rather than replacing.

If that's what you choose to do then that's your prerogative. But I genuinely don't think it's good advice to give someone else. In fact - I would be so bold as to say that the advice you have given in that post is exactly the kind of advice I would expect the owner of a high street bookies to give.

Addiction needs killing like cancer. Abstinence is the chemotherapy.

You have mentioned - quite a few times in your thread - that the money you lose is 'money that you can afford to lose'. May I put it to you that it is only money that you have decided you can 'lose' but you actually wish to double or treble this amount...otherwise...why gamble?!?!?

Thank you blackjack and changed_man for your additions to my diary - much appreciated.

blackjack - reading between the lines I think you are suggesting that as I have an element of control it would be better to gamble with less, albiet to win less, to satisfy my craving. There is some reasoned logic here but I think I am better to abstain completely as all I need is one lucky payout and whoooosh I would be seeking more and more. Also, its only really the roulette feature that I get a buzz from.

Your words have raised a couple of useful things for me in that 1) I am not totally out of control as I tend to stop once I have put back I won previously (plus a little more) and 2) it is only the fast action roulette machine that facinates me. I find horse and dog racing really dull and can't remember the last time I played an actual fruit machine (I would guess 10 or so years ago, maybe longer).

What else is interesting is that in all the time I have played the FOBT's I have never spent a single penny on any of the other features available on the FOBT's such as bingo or reels etc. For some reason they do not interest me in the slightest and when I saw people playing those features I used to think 'what a waste of time' (pot and kettle lol).

Changed_man: thanks for your comments to. I appreciate most were for blackjack and it would be good for you to have a healthy discussion over your differing views. As you will note what what I have said above I will be abstaining totally as I am too easily encouraged by any sort of win.

Todays update - not gambled and am now even more interested as to why the roulette feature is so attractive to me. All very bizarre!!

Still good to report I have achieved 12 days without playing the roulette machine.

I have often wondered myself why those roulette games sucked me in big time.

Perhaps it's the chance of winning big?

Or the sound effects?

Or the fact that you know where it will land as soon as you press the button?

Or the 'interest' in finding patterns within spins?

Or the chasing of the number that has not come up yet?

All of the above are very silly reasons for us to be throwing money away. What really matters is that NO-ONE ever wins on those long-term, no matter how disciplined they are.

Have a good gamble free day.

GT

Hi changed_man.

Thanks for adding your thoughts to my last post to DaveUK. The internet is useful if only to allow subjects to be debated reasonably and this must be welcomed.

Firstly I must state that I have no connection to any bookmaker, either professionally or financially. I am as normal a ? mug ? punter as any other gambler who posts on here. Of course of anything written on here is almost impossible for the reader to prove so you'll just have to take my word for it.

You make a good point as to why I am on here if I am comfortable with my gambling. Like many others who venture on here I was not convinced that I didn't have a problem and wanted to read how others felt about their situations. I hope I'll ever be arrogant enough to assume that I can't ever fall onto the slippery slope but having wanted to try to find out where I sit on the ' problem ' scale I've somehow become a regular visitor. Surely this site is as much a site for people who think they MAY have a problem as much as for those who do ?

In that respect this forum has a a few fascinating stories to tell. I remember someone on here came out with a claim that he'd won a great deal of money by one form of gambling but was worried that he's waste it all gambling in some other way. Unsurprisingly he received short shrift from almost everyone - a forum such as this to tell problem gamblers he'd won a substantial amount of money is perhaps not the best place to raise the issue! However most stories on here are heart rending and I consider myself lucky that I haven't been drawn to gambling in the way that some have.

You ask why I gamble ? Well, we all spend money on things that other people think is crazy. I know that it is money ' wasted ' but it is on so many other things in life and I get pleasure in winning a little now and then. I do realise that I'll never win overall and that any ' winnings ' are only a temporary bookmaker's loan. Most people on this site realise this too.

I stand by my opinion that Dave doesn't have a problem and worries himself too much that he could develop one. He's demonstrated that he has a pretty cautious approach to life and I think beating himself up so much is doing him as much harm as it does good. I don't consider that my ' advice ' to Dave is good, bad or indifferent. Whether or not he chooses to take it is up to him but I wouldn't say I'm actively encouraging him to gamble. In most cases it's very, very difficult to stop gambling completely. It's interesting in Dave's case that as far as I can recall he has not gone down the self-exclusion route which might be the best course of action if he really does want to stop ?

People may well disagree with me that controlled gambling is OK. There are of course two types of controlled gambling. There's the gambler - who in gamble-speak has ' done his b*llocks ' more times than he can remember - and then there's those that haven't, who themselves must be controlled gamblers by definition. Clearly those that can't stop until all their money is gone would well advised to cease gambling completely. In my opinion Dave sits firmly in the second camp so his perceived problem is controlled by his approach to life generally and he shouldn't worry unduly about his gambling.

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

( Dave : My apologies for referring to you in the ' third party ' in this response. I did realise that you have posted again but I found it easier to reply to you both this way. Best wishes. Blackjack )

Thanks Gettingthere and Blackjack and I hope all is going well for you,

Gettingthere - you have really set me thinking about what the facsincation of the roulette machine is. Overcoming the facsination would pretty much solve the problem for me as its the only form of gambling I did.

The sound of the machine plays a part, from the spin noise when the ball is released to the rattling of the ball as it comes to a halt. The noise it makes when adding the credit after a win is exciting but above all the anticipation of a decent win is massive. Somehow these things are more powerful than the common sense of knowing I will end up losing overall. Definately food for thought!

Blackjack - your assessment of me is spot on!! I have a really cautious approach to life - I am the stereotypical married for ages, two children, nice house, nice car, 2 week annual holiday abroad, long-term steady employment guy - and when I gamble I feel like I am being a naughty boy!

As soon as lose more than I have won I get immensely fed-up and take shelter on this site. Take my last binge session, I played for a few days and was £615 up in total. Of course I tried to get more and in a one hour session put £800 in and went back to my hotel room (I was working away) and fell apart. In my mind I had lost £800 but really had lost £185 (not that £185 is not a waste of money mind). I really hate that sickly losing feeling !! The amount of times I win then lose and say if I win again I will be controlled only to just lose it all again.

The problem is once I have built up credit over a few days I count that money as part of my assets and will add it to my finance spreadsheet (and thats a buzz to) - and losing any of it niggles me. I suppose what I am saying is I expect to win EVERY TIME - hey that's the problem!

I love making money and will happily work extra hours, spent hours selling on ******* and will look endlessly round the shops and on the net to make sure I always get the best possible price - almost obsessively so! If I buy something and then see it cheaper elsewhere, if only by a few pounds 9/10 I will take it back and go and get it at the lower price. If I see it cheaper I say to myself it doesn't really matter but inside I cannot settle. When I buy anything I spend more time assessing whether its really worth the money and whether I really needed it rather than just enjoying it. I also cannot understand why other people are not more careful with their money.

In a way its quite good fun analysing myself and I do conceed I am not out of control with the roulette machines as I am usually putting back what I took out - this said I am fearful of becoming addicted (my cautious approach again).

All interesting stuff to me and I think I am making progress.

13 days since I last played the roulette machine.

Following a post by S.A. on someone elses diary it appears I am an 'escape gambler'.

As suggested I went into google and typed in 'profile of an action gambler' and although I did not really match that profile I mirror that of an escape gambler.

I have never thought I was a compulsive gambler as I have a limit when I can stop - I just hate losing money full stop 🙂

Will post more later........

There are some great posts and challenges on the site at the moment!

Now reached the 2 week mark and to be honest the pain of the last loss has started to leave me - I am not sure if viewing the net loss of £185 or final session loss of £800 (which left me £185 down) is best for me. Probably the second but that makes me think I am worse thean I really am.

Had day at home today and just watched deal or no deal - I would be rubbish on there as I would not be able to resist the first decent offer I got. The guy today was offered £22K at one point and greed took over and he ended up with £1K. He then got some sort of deal chance and guess what..........ended with £0. He was not a happy Santa but its a bit like me with the roulette machines as I would get in front but want more and end up with nothing.

It really was good to read about the different types of gamblers earlier - I am deffo more of an escape gambler. When I think about it I liked being alone with the machine as it took my mind off life generally and all the things we have to cope with. What also ties in is that I hate people watching me play and when people start talking to me I think just P--s off and leave me to play alone lol. I just love time by myself!

The profile of the escape gambler is as follows:-

Escape gamblers prefer games that are perceived to have no elements of skill; these games include video poker, lottery, bingo, and slot machines. These games provide the relief from feelings of anxiety, depression, anger, boredom or loneliness. They use gambling to escape from crisis or difficulties. Gambling provides an analgesic effect rather than a euphoric response.

The hard work starts now as its easy to stop once I have lost money - however small the loss was.

Good on ya Dave!

I watched Deal or Noel Deal (lol) and as I'm the opposite character to you (action) - I would probably have left with same amount that poor guy did. The only thing that would've stopped me would be my Mrs throwing rocks and daggers at my head from the audience! 😛

Now this pain is easing - are you tempted by the evil mistress? If so - let me know. I'm always here. I'm working on a poem at the minute. I think it'll be called AN ODE TO THE FOBTs...watch this space.

Matt

Day 4.

Cheers Matt - really look forward to the poem.

Am I tempted? - true answer - yes! Reason being as having evaluated myself I am perhaps not as bad as I thought.

This said how many drug addicts thought they were not in a bad position when they had their first line or smoke (or whatever you do as I am naive with drugs) and how may alchoholics thought they were fine when they had their first drink etc.......

It does get interesting now as the cycle of win, lose, get over being fed up from losing, win lose etc has moved to the 'get over being fed up' stage!

In my mind I am picturing me winning - I need to quickly recreate those losing feelings!

Matt (Changed_Man) really inspried me yesterday with his poem. Nothing much happening today so have had a bash myself.

One, two, three, four, zero and twenty-six

They are the numbers that will give me my fix

I’ll start very low, just a small bet

No need to worry, won’t get caught in their net

I hit the button it’s not a win

You see I know where the ball lands, as soon as I spin

Never mind it means I can play longer

Me versus the machine - surely I’m stronger

Hit repeat spin I go again

This ones close, nope its number ten

Ah well it means I can play longer

Me versus the machine - surely I’m stronger

One more go then my credit has gone

I have more in my wallet, this loss won’t last long

What the hell anyway it means I can play longer

Me versus the machine - surely I’m stronger

I feed in a twenty I have fifty left

It’s taken with pleasure I’m now on a quest

I now start to realise I need to play longer

Me versus the machine - I’m sure I am stronger

At last it’s a winner I knew it would fall

I’m now almost even, I feel ten feet tall

I can’t walk away now, I’m staying longer

See, I told you, I knew I was stronger

My wallet feels lighter, lost almost a ton

The numbers are loaded its losing its fun

My switch card will help me to top up the wonger

I'm starting to doubt that I am the stronger

Please put us a hundred on number four

Just win it back then I’ll head for the door

Need to bet big now to get out of jail

But I am the stronger, I will prevail

Well that went so badly need more funds to stake

I punch in my pin, my hand starts to shake

For the gathering crowd, it’s a free show

Just prove I am stronger, my confidence will grow

Another one fifty this is the last

I’m 600 down, just a half-hour has past

My wallet is full now - full with receipts

No longer feel stronger I think I am beat

A smile on my face I’ll not let it show

Inside I’m so gutted, I now feel so low

Those who are watching, just think its funny

Not so strong now, I've lost all that money

I now feel embarrassed, could blow a fuse

Those bloody spectators willed me to lose

Never again will I do such a thing

Me versus the machine - I’ve let them win

Can’t even be bothered to bid my farewell

As I trudge so slowly towards the stairwell

I count the receipts - I feel totally shattered

They haven’t just beat me - I have been battered

I get in the car, life feels at an end

My excuses are ready, I bumped into a friend

I just feel so guilty - run through the mill

If only she knew I’d lossed 600 nil

So now off to Gamcare - I need to post

They are my shelter when I need help the most

But I’m in a cycle, soon think I am stronger

Go back to verse one? not any longer!

Dave, what a smashing poem.....

Tread carefully though....for us lot on here with addictive personalities Gamcare at this rate will soon be opening a ' Supporting a Problem Poet '

section on the forum especially for you and changed_man ( lol )