Killing the Zombie

Hai Louis,

Good post and agreed. Was thinking on the same lines but my interpretation is that life and gamcare can be split into 3 categories, with which I have an interest in all of them -

1. Donald Trump Supporters.
2. Aung San Suu Kyi Supporters
3. Pol Pot supporters and his theory on time zero.

So a sliding scale on delusion or sense, which ever way you want to look at it. I guess in my time, in one way or the other I've been affiliated in all 3 but now trying to follow Aung San's lead. ie tolerant for All.

So gee Louis and a big Yankee doodley dandy coming your way.

Haha! That'll teach me, reply at speed, repent at leisure. I am guilty of doing exactly what I dislike about some people, I tarred you with the same brush without knowing your history so for that I apologise Louis.

Twinklyr

Thank you all for your replies.

Twinklyr, thanks for your apology fair play to you for that.

be surprised if the ga stats are so low/dread to think what tthe stats aee for other 'methods'. anecdotally, from reading peoples' stories on here for 3 years it seems by far the most effective.

I don't like to hear you, twinklyr, talk about 'the glorification of people who have had something some seriously nasty stuff in their life', though.
It takes a lot of guts for people to talk about traumatic incidents which have probably shamed and enslaved them for much of their lives.
when people open up -hey there's a gravitational pull, a respect not a glorification. Of course we are drawn to people who conquer their fears.

As it happens, I've not had any major trauma. But I accept there was something really unwell about me. Why else were was i so self-defeating?

I get that for some, reading about another describe their fears and insecurities, is an uncomfortable experience. For the person able to open up, however, it's a liberating one. For me, now that I can talk openly about my difficulty of.social confidence, both on here and in 3d, I'm not being trapped by the shame and fear of it any more. I'm able to break out of that cycle. I don't go on about it all the time in 3d -I choose carefully who I tell. But weirdly I find it connects me to people-reminds both of us I'm nowt special.
Might seem depressing/uncomfortable reading but that can only be because people are reflecting back on themselves -which is of course natural as we're human after all (full of judgements of ourselves and others)
Whether we've had trauma, an identifiable mental health condition or not- sorry but we're all pretty funked up by definiotion of being an addict.
All gamblers are serial avoiders/escapers. I don't think that point is controversial any more. I also think it's pretty clear that by escaping (gambling) we're being led by fear. So, if we can face up to our fears....
Best
Louis

IMHO... Your post nails it Louis:)

Thanks both

HL - can't find yr diary so posting here

Also, re the % stat - its only of any relevance if its compared against something.

There's another ( suspiciously unsourced) stat that only 1% make it to a yeaf gf. Supposing that's true and that the ga stat is true - the ga stat seems to be either 3 or 8% , depending on when you log on here

Now say to an addict- would you like to increase your chances of stopping by either 3 or 8 times? I suspect they would bite your hand off. Suddenly the ga stat doesn't sound so bad (of course when the addict has to actually do something- the stats get less appealing)

In any event, criticisms of ga tend to come from people trying regular abstention. Now let's be clear THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH REGULAR ABSTENTION. And posters commenting that 'people like me' might want them to fail - are way off the mark. That's a low blow as I would never want to point score over something so serious.

Pure abstention is fine and infinitely better than doing nothing. But it's not really a method, technique or structure. It's 'trying to stop', which again, for the avoidance of doubt, is a good thing.

'Trying to stop' does work and there's a lot of evidence in the form of long term posters here. But in number, they're dwarfed by those who post and leave, who read and don't post, and those who never get to gc.

I get that ga, counselling and therapy are unappealing. Let's face it, no one planned it this way. But changing does require some effort and if our boat has been going on auto-pilot out to see, many need structure and openness to get back on track

If people dont want to seek help through ga, psych or therapy that's fair enough. If people are scared they might lose some inner self (ego) then fair enough, sort of

But attacking the effectiveness of these techniques, effectively to point score, is wrong and needs to be challenged

Best
Louis

Hi Louis , great post and for once I agree with much of what your saying but attacking the effectiveness of these techniques has become a two way street and that I think is what need to change , I have no problem with any route chosen if it helps but don't enjoy being criticised for the choices that I and many others choose to follow. I think in my humble opinion that we all need to be more mindful of each other's feelings , join as one and accept that we all need different levels of support during our recovery and by doing that I'm sure we'll all benefit from the forum more allowing us to fight our enemy together ? . I genuinely wish you well my friend and send my respect to you Best wishes ....Alan

Hi, Louis,

Agree with your post, subject to caveat. The addiction changes the thinking processes. So being gf is hugely important and a huge daily sacrifice for the reward of a normal life. But if the corrupted thought processes don't ever get straightened out, what then?

In my case, it was still impossible, even though he's gf. Having read round the subject, I gather that he's not unique. Changing years of thinking is doable but takes huge effort. And that's just for me. Not surprising that it's not popular.

Just my humble, as Volcano would say.

BW,

CW

Secret admirer huh, didn't know i have those...makes a change ☺

Thank you for your thoughts and well wishes. Am not dissapearing for good, besides, i can always post on other threads i suppose.
I like seing your posts also..gives me food for thought. Natural feelings is the hardest to explore in my opinion..cause they seem too complicated while we are in the fog lol.

You are tackling your insecurities admirably...head on! Like a true soldier ☺..inspiring to see for sure and i shall follow your lead and try to get out of mine anxiety issues.

I wish you well Louis (like your name by the way)..look after yourself and keep doing what you doing..progress for all to see!

Keep on winning

S x

Thanks all

Alan - that a kind post and I appreciate it. I also accept and reflect on your points which you raised.

For me, on here, it's a balancing act involving being true to myself, which includes standing up for myself, and helping others. Unfortunately, my 'red state' has also entered the equation, particularly recently,. This has meant I'm not really balancing what's important, but there's this unpredicable judgemental thing in play. Hello fight of flight.

I read a post by LB about conflict avoidance and that resonated. I also thought - this is really a 'man issue' going on on this board. Which is really very silly and I hold my hands up.

I do think it's important that people have their own space to challenge or stand up for what they believe in - particularly if it's in the confines of their diary or in those of friends. This is particularly true when we're talking about challenging ideas and concepts, rather than being personal.

An example - if the funders of this message board had their way, then (at the very best), they would be promoting some kind of 'responsible gambling' line (not a dig at the workers who are doing a good job). However, it is almost almost universally accepted on here that CGs can't gamble responsibly and that abstinence is essential. Yet ASFAIK this isn't written in a constitution on here. This is an organic priciple 'by the masses' which has fought itself through and come to be accepted. So in spite of their being a battle between big gambling business and a bunch of reprobate gambers - some kind of 'truth' has prevailed.

Having been on here for over 3 years, you see a huge turnover of people and you see patterns emerging, and (having been a very quiet poster initially) I feel more compelled to speak out due to both my own experience and through observing the experiences of others on this forum, over time. So I do feel that, like the principle of abstinence, there are ways which should be promoted because they are good.

CW - I personally agree with you. I intially queried your referring to 'corrupted thought processes' - but now that strikes me as being bang on. Gamblers have cemented some pretty serious escapist tendancies in their minds - hardwiring. IMHO years of habitual escapim have to be un-learnt. It doesn't just happen in a flash. The eureka moment is nice. It's brilliant in fact and a testimony to life. But a thought is still a thought. They're transitory and we fall back on habit.

Louis

Hey Louis and thanks I appreciate your response , Just thinking that sometimes it just becomes a bit testosterone'y on here , not a real word but it seemed to fit and maybe the lack of buzz we used to get from gambling is being provided by a bit of confrontation that just escalates simply because it gets the blood pumping again ? Maybe eh , but it's getting late now so time to move on ! We may have our different opinions but I'm still happy to be walking the road with you . ( and I didn't even high 5 you , now that's respect ) LOL!

Thanks all

Alan-yes could say testosteroney. I read that humans are either in a green (safe) or red (danger) state. When we perceive danger our brains get flooded with cortisol which creates the conditions for fight or flight.

Made a lot sense when we were hunter gatherers and at risk of being hunted and we literally had to fight or flight.

Problem is fight or flight still kicks in today, but rather than the danger being a hungry lion, its a sarcastic coment at work, a fear that i don't fit in, a snidey comment on an internet forum.

Ideally, these minor things wouldn't trigger us off. But to a large extent, that's just the way it is- can't really control evolution.

All I can do is apologise when I get into that state and try be more self-aware going forwards.

Best

Louis

..and cortisol islinked with stress, premature ageing, cancers -everything bad basically. Best to stay in the green when we can!

Morning Louis , yep me too, I'll try and be more mindfull of others before thge mist descends !

Take care fella and have a good day !

Regards Alan

Thank you Louis and Alan. Testosterony eh? That helps me understand a bit better. It helps me understand a lot better. -joanxxx

Often read that low self esteem is a major problem for gamblers. I would suggest that high self esteem is also a big problem.

Society and the media would have us believe that high self-esteem is the be all and end all. Yet self-esteem just means the opinion that you have of yourself - or in particular the extent to which you are convinced that the opinion you have of yourself is true (at any given time).

Whilst the problems with low-self esteem are self-evident, high self esteem is also hugely problematic. First up, given self-esteem is, ONLY, an opinion of yourself, this opinion will probably change, as opinions do. And if you've invested a whole deal of time and effort in believing your this great person, then the crash is gona hit you pretty hard. In any event, I don't find people with very high opinions of themselves to good company, so it's not something I want to aim for. People with constantly high opinions of themselves are probably narcisistic.

Back to the addict, or back to me - my self-esteem tended to fluctuate pretty wildly. I started to obsess about getting the feel good factor - hence getting that very temporary buzz at the expense of anything meaningul which required personal investment. Now I start to look at the highs with some caution - often these highs come before a crash.

Typical pattern - I do something important, in accordance with my values. There might follow good feelings as a result of this. All good so far - but sometimes the good feelings get legs! They change into some general 'I'm great' thing, 'i'm a winner'. Feels high and buzzy - but there's been a transition from something built on something solid, to, well, basically a heady bubble of hot air.

The same thing happens in the other direction. Something I pereceive as being a failure happens, I'm a loser, a downward spiral follows.

Self-acceptance is important. Accepting 'failures' as well as 'successes' without giving myself blanket self judgements is too. Most important is that I do things which are important to me, in line with my values. I read a line in an ACT book I'm reading which was along the lines of - if you were to imagine your own funeral, would you rather that people said of you 'what I admired about him was that he was inspirational, compassionate, stood for what he believed in' or would you rather that people said 'I really admired that he had a very high opinion of himself'.

So rather than chasing the good feeling - consider whether I'm acting in accordance with my values.

I know that talking about acting in accordance with values can sound a bit contrived. But values are inherent to us - it's just that they become eroded when we are gambling and battling ourselves. Therefore a framework can help us get back on track.

Best

Louis