Getting away with it or recovery?

I get the feel that this subject maybe angers you because when you read it you see yourself?

If you read the first 2 posts by yourself in your diary you had excactly the same almost word for word what many people say why they don't want to tell there partners , you got it pretty quick after joining what you needed to do , on the other hand it took you 15 years of keeping it to yourself. And I'm not having a dig there either. but some people need that little extra time be it days weeks years . To start to open up about it

Clarity comes at different stages for people. It took me about 10 years to start talking to my wife about my problem, she always knew to an extent of my gambling but not the bigger problem I found myself in.

People like myself included will say you need to tell your partner but give no real reason as to why. Mostly this will be followed up with your living a lie or not living to values, a favourite is you're as bad as cheating and they need to know .

Telling a partner is about getting the support you can't find yourself.

Imagine recovery like the film inception but instead of dreams it's stages of a lie. Stage 4 you gamble . You shock yourself out of stage 4 by stopping. You're now in stage 3 you start to ponder the mess you're in . Mostly with debt people will go back to stage 4 . Those that start to do something about it will shock to stage 2. Stage 2 is a place you start to open up to others partners friends any one you see sometimes. The lies start to unravel and you start to get some confidence out of sharing with people. Stage one recovery begins.

Some people live within the other 3 realms happily. But they're the ones who say I've stopped gambling but it's not getting any better. This is why I put telling others at 2 because it's not until you want to change will you enter recovery at stage one.

I stayed between 2 and 4 for a long time I told my wife 6 years prior to having a decent go at stopping. I may of well said here's my problem you deal with it . Because I didn't until now

I may of deviated from the initial post somewhere but I'll add to it later .

A true recovery comes from the soul. A true recovery is about baring the soul with openness and honesty. Its about finding out who you are and why the addiction took control. Its a born again moment and you have to go all the way.

Any so called recovery based on fear or secrets will not last. I see people at various stages of facing the addiction and can see that some people are not ready to deal with it in the right way. Many have their own mindet that they will deal with it in their own way. This may be a mind controlled by addicted thoughts. For a start they seem to have no idea about the power of addiction and how it works.

Shame is an interesting word in the context of an addiction. When addicted I would quite happily take my parents money, cheerily wave them goodbye and go off and gamble with it. I was shameless, driven by an addiction which didnt care and wanted its own fix. I was in essence stealing and can see the rocky road that would have taken me to crime.

Having said all that, fear and shame can be a useful thing when tied in with blocks. Self exclusion relies on an element of the shame that might be felt if attempting to sneak in. I did set up monitoring of my finances as the shame of someone finding I had gambled again was a deterrent. I couldnt get them to control all my money so I set up regular reports and general monitoring of my bank statements and bills.

I dont want to gamble though so there is more driving me than fear or shame. I dont feel urges to gamble. With discussion I have to be wary of spur of the moment decisions in certain environments. Could I gamble again? Yes I could in a certain situation and set of circumstances so I am never complacent.

Some people say they want to change and thats as far as it goes really. They are confused with the addiction and want the door open to gamble again. They just cant come to terms with the fact that they are out of control of their own actions.

I had a pint yesterday and felt no shame in mentioning to the barman that I am not to be seen on the machines as I am a compulsive gambler. I still do that and I do it with pride. I am not comfortable that they have put a machine in an area where I would like to sit.

So I say the getting away with it approach does not work. Pretend morality does not work.

Facing who you are with full openness and honesty does work together with serious blocks while the mind heals.

Best wishes to everyone on the forum

I took the cowardice, immoral way so feel I can add to that question / debate.

I let my ego tell me that I was a saviour of sorts and by dealing it by my self that I was akin to a hero from history. Deluded hai !

Not only did I remain shackled by addictions it also enslaved my ex as she couldn't fathom the sucker punches reigning down on her.

That's why my humble is that it's a lot easier in re(dis )covery as a single chap and my hat goes off to couples who are dealing with it togetherw

Albeit that being my experience, it's a tough call ! It's the deceiving of ' Selfish in addiction, Selfish in recovery ' the latter part of that is the deceptive ' Trap '

Superb post

A true recovery comes from the soul. A true recovery is about baring the soul with openness and honesty. Its about finding out who you are and why the addiction took control. Its a born again moment and you have to go all the way.

Any so called recovery based on fear or secrets will not last. I see people at various stages of facing the addiction and can see that some people are not ready to deal with it in the right way. Many have their own twisted preconceptions that they will deal with it in their own way. For a start they seem to have no idea about the power of addiction and how it works.

Shame is an interesting word in the context of an addiction. When addicted I would quite happily take my parents money, cheerily wave them goodbye and go off and gamble with it. I was shameless, driven by an addiction which didnt care and wanted its own fix. I was in essence stealing and can see the rocky road that would have taken me to crime.

Having said all that, fear and shame can be a useful thing when tied in with blocks. Self exclusion relies on an element of the shame that might be felt if attempting to sneak in. I did set up monitoring of my finances as the shame of someone finding I had gambled again was a deterrent. I couldnt get them to control all my money so I set up regular reports and general monitoring of my bank statements and bills.

I dont want to gamble though so there is more driving me than fear or shame. I dont feel urges to gamble. With discussion I have to be wary of spur of the moment decisions in certain environments. Could I gamble again? Yes I could in a certain situation and set of circumstances so I am never complacent.

Some people say they want to change and thats as far as it goes really. They are confused with the addiction and want the door open to gamble again. They just cant come to terms with the fact that they are out of control of their own actions.

I had a pint yesterday and felt no shame in mentioning to the barman that I am not to be seen on the machines as I am a compulsive gambler. I still do that and I do it with pride. I am not comfortable that they have put a machine in an area where I would like to sit.

So I say the getting away with it approach does not work. Pretend morality does not work.

Facing who you are with full openness and honesty does work together with serious blocks while the mind heals.

Best wishes to everyone on the forum

I suspect 'not wanting my partner to be upset' actually translates as 'not wanting my access to gambling compromised' a lot of the time.

@ Deano - yeah I get angered (or saddened) by the gambling lie. Can't it just be though, that I think it's wrong?

I could just as easily ask if your annoyance with my posts on this matter, reflects your own guilt. As I don't think my view is contraversial.

I don't refrain from pointing out the harm caused by secrecy. I get annoyed when I see people basking in glory, back slapping themselves, when it's based around lying. I worry that others will be encouraged by this.

You seem to say, I kept my gambling a complete secret for 14 years, that it's hypocritical of me to now feel strongly about this? Well, on this forum we've all done stuff we're not proud of. If our past actions means that we can no longer have a voice on matters, then this place goes pretty quiet?

I never used to view my secrecy as a deceptive, cowardly way of living. I realise it more clearly now. We live and learn.

What do you have against the comparison of gambling secrecy being akin to an affair? This comes from f & Fs and seems entirely logical. We have to accept the f & f view here. How you would you feel if somone documented a lengthy affair, and then bragged about how great life is having got away with it? Would you think that's fine. Or that's it's wrong? That's how I feel about gambling secrecy.

You say that telling a partner is about getting the support you can't get. That a pretty self-centred way of looking at it. Yes there's that. But what about it being the right thing to do? What about treating others as we would like to be treated? What about your partner deserving honesty? About a relationship being built on honesty?

Deep down we know all these things are paramount, hence this being essential to recovery.

Best

Louis

Your post didn't anger me Louis and I'm unsure as to why you think it would?

I agree with mostly what you said I merely pointed out you said the same thing you now dislike so much when you started.

Who's to say the guy won't tell his partner . Just because he's happy about stopping and he doesn't want to tell his partner yet who's to say the further in he won't tell her . I can't comment on his situation for all I know he may of been with her a few months. I don't know where he is in the relationship! We all know it's the right thing to do.

And no I don't think it's at all like someone having an affair not even the same page . But as this is a debates section expect a view that variates from person to person.

Good responce there Deano.

But will have to agree to disagree as i do tend to think that an affair is akin to decieving one's partner with there addiction, even if they do abstain with an element of success. I can only talk from my experience and know with my ex, that she thought i was playing away, and yet deep down she knew i wouldn't, which made it more insiduos than an affair. At the end when i was on the fast track spiral, she then thought i was paying for an affair. My mind and being wasn't in the same room as her.

Hence i humbly think to go for true recovery everything has to be transparent, other wise its the partner who tends to go nuts as they start thinking that the invisible shunts and sucker punches is down to them.

So, on that note, i get Louis and f & f's

From my past experience I would say that getting "caught out" gave me a reason to quit gambling but it also gave a pressure of wanting to put right all the wrongs, and the solution I always came up with was to win the money back because its the quickest way.

This time around I havent confessed to gambling when I said I wouldnt, I havent been caught out either. I have come to the decison that I want to quit and that I will quit. Will I tell my OH about what has been happening for the past few years eventually? Probably, but only when I have proved its all in the past. I dont think you can apply the same "solution" to all people because everyones situation is different. If someone has made the decision to recover and is doing so how would creating a potential conflict aid this?

I don't think getting away with it is real recovery because real recovery involves a long hard look at self and values, it also involves shrinking ego. All of which produces change in personality and mindset and it's that fundamental change that sustains recovery. Put another way, dry drunk isn't recovery.

CW

I'm still in agreement of telling the partner or whom ever is the right thing to i whole heartedly agree.

The thing I don't agree with is the pack mentality telling said person he has to do it now and hit them with quotes of real recovery or having no morals.

I've only been on the forum a few years but I know when people get pushed that's when they start to pull . It then becomes a case of said person/addict trying to prove a point that he/she can do it alone. It's a retreat back to safety for that person.

What I'm trying to say is some people just need a bit more time to figure out what the right or wrong thing is to do.

I can point out dozens of diaries that had the same reaction sentiment of wanting the alone factor. Who went on to tell their partners and have some relative gamble free time now . Again this was achieved over a relative gamble free period.

Moving on the guy who posted about his 7 years of being bet free in secret if you read between the lines he still has all the guilt he started with and he lives with it no doubt he always will. The choice them comes to live a life of guilt or set yourself free and confess your sins. If you confess your sins you don't have to live in fear of one day it coming back to haunt you .

I'll cut off here as my break is over

Deano

I don't think "getting away with it" is the right way to describe not confessing. By not telling people I am not "getting away with it" - I am accepting my wrongdoings and tackling them by myself both financially and mentally.

I do not want people to feel they need to help me, nor do I fear the repercussions of confessing.

"Real" recovery is to stop gambling - it isn't to become some kind of saintly figure.

A change in mindset and attitude towards gambling is a personal thing - we will not all achieve this the same way. If it was as simple as confess and you will quit gambling for good then it would be for everyone. I am sure there are countless examples of people that have confessed to their OH but still can't achieve recovery, as well as their others that "get away with it" and also fail in recovery.

But what do I know 😉 Keep up the fight all

'Pack mentality', 'hounding'. Really? Opening up is THE key to both stopping gambling and a deeper recovery. There's a lot of justification of secrecy by people who have just stopped, and have a personal interest/guilt which supports their position. Amazingly there are even active gamblers justifying it. This needs to be called out for the ** that it is - esp on a debates forum. Don't know why people are so akward and defensive when morals are brought into it. Surely the maximum of 'treat others how you wish to be treated' is relevant to the question of opening up. If that makes anyone uncomfortable then ask why -don't shoot the person who points out the obvious.

Deano8 wrote:

I'm still in agreement of telling the partner or whom ever is the right thing to i whole heartedly agree.

The thing I don't agree with is the pack mentality telling said person he has to do it now and hit them with quotes of real recovery or having no morals.

I've only been on the forum a few years but I know when people get pushed that's when they start to pull . It then becomes a case of said person/addict trying to prove a point that he/she can do it alone. It's a retreat back to safety for that person.

What I'm trying to say is some people just need a bit more time to figure out what the right or wrong thing is to do.

I can point out dozens of diaries that had the same reaction sentiment of wanting the alone factor. Who went on to tell their partners and have some relative gamble free time now . Again this was achieved over a relative gamble free period.

Moving on the guy who posted about his 7 years of being bet free in secret if you read between the lines he still has all the guilt he started with and he lives with it no doubt he always will. The choice them comes to live a life of guilt or set yourself free and confess your sins. If you confess your sins you don't have to live in fear of one day it coming back to haunt you .

I'll cut off here as my break is over

Deano

Whoops Deano, Rained off today ? You've been painting Picasso with a brush of late, that time it was with a marshalltown, maybe a top and tail needed.

Said with effection Deano