Zero Tolerance

Thanks for your opinions, I appreciate it. I did not go to the pub quiz, nordid I give my child money for a raffle. I did though buy him some football stickers, pointing out that it is better he spends money on things he wants, not on a ticket for a cake he does not even like!

Great outcome 🙂

Zero tolerance towards gambling.

But a pub quiz isn't gambling

cardhue wrote: Zero tolerance towards gambling. But a pub quiz isn't gambling

It can be if there is a prize at the end of it.

Although easy way around that is to say in advance you won't accept the prize if you do win.

Gambling surely involves games of chance. A competition which requires skill/knowledge is different.

Eg if you enter a pool competition and win, and win the prize money, you haven't gambled.

I know that there are quiz machines which can blur into fruit machine - like action.

But no need to throw the baby out with the bath water

Interesting debate 🙂

I'm definitely with cardhue on thiis one.

I agree that abstinance should be far-reaching (i.e. I never had a problem with sports betting but avoid it anyway as to not trigger a relapse) but there HAS to be room for common sense.

I would happily pay to enter a pub quiz as, like cardhue says, it isn't gambling. More importantly, however, you can't 'chase' a pub quiz, a pool competition, a charity darts tournament etc. You pay to enter, you win or lose, done and dusted, you can't say "I'll have another go at that to see if I'll win".

My wife and I still have a few games (normally a quid each) on the quiz machine if we're in the pub. Anyone who knows quiz machines know that the RTP is terrible so you're not really playing to win, more just for the fun of the game and, if you do win, you just use it to play a few more games. This is something we enjoy and, whether or not it is 'technically' gambling (legally it isn't hence no need for a licence), there is no feasible way it could get 'out of hand'.

I apply the same 'common sense' theory to things like a charity sweepstake at work or a raffle in the pub. You can't exactly chase your losses can you and it's a one-time event with the potential prize being secondary to the charitable donation and the 'taking part'. Some might even extend this theory to the lottery.

I'm going to be unpopular with some but, in my opinion, to advise someone against giving their child a quid or whatever to enter a school-funding raffle to win a CAKE (not a huge cash jackpot) is ridiculous and very unfair on the child. I agree that exposure to gambling at a young age (fruit machines being the prime culprit) can lead to problems in later life. But it's not fair for the child to be excluded on the basis of it being 'gambling' (it's not like the child has a gambling problem and it begging for money to buy fifty tickets).

I think I've said my piece but I think there's being vigilant, being exceptionally cautious and then there's hysteria and I think we're dangerous close to falling over the line here.

Best wishes to all.

It's not about taking a ridiculous stance it's about the widespead and insidious softening up of the next generation of punters including latent problem gamblers but if you're happy to collude with that, crack on.

Interesting that it's ex-gamblers defending it. Could it be that being on the receiving end of the fallout from a gambling addiction makes one more prone to hysteria?

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Best wishes

Deirdre

Forum admin

I'm not defending the 'softening of the next generation' to gambling (blimey, if most of them got any softer they'd struggle to remain upright!).

I completely agree that children are exposed to gambling too much in the UK. We are the only European country that allows children to gamble on slot machines (albeit at a reduced jackpot). We also bombard our children (and adults) with tons of gambling advertising with TV ads glamourising it and posters in bookies windows on every street corner.

If anyone takes issue with the level or targeting of gambling advertising (look at prime time Saturday night for example, there is even and 'X Factor' casino!) then I'm right behind you. If there was a petition to remove low-jackpot fruit machines from seaside arcades then I'd be the first to sign. However, if you somehow believe that we are leading kids into a lifetime of gambling by giving them the chance to win a cake(!) then I can't possibly agree. To me (and it is just my opinion) it's like suggesting that the giant gambling companies have got under the skin of the local priest and forced him to hold a T*****a at the next church fete (I don't know about you but the mere idea of winning an out-of-date bottle of Lambrini from the back of Ethels drinks cupboard is enough to trigger a full-blown relapse for me).

I didn't mean any offence to anyone with my post (seemingly unlike others), it was just me voicing my opinion (which for some reason, as a recovering gambler, is less important apparantly). I'm very open to other points of view however but I just find it a stretch to believe that somehow schools are in cahoots with the gambling companies to get the 'punters of tomorrow' hooked through a cake raffle.

As a side note (although I appreciate that, to some extent, I might be contradicting my own point!). When I was growing up I was constantly told at school that smoking was bad, that all drugs were dangerous and that drinking was to be avoided. What did I do as a teenager? Exactly.

Yes I agree it can seem over the top to talk about the cake raffle but it is an interesting debate because its all about that feeling of expectation and it is a reward vs risk/stake in the event.

You could argue that there is no risk there with a 20p or £1 ticket. You know its generally going to a good cause and feel quite good that someone will at least win a nice cake.

It will affect some people who feel quite sad that the cake went elsewhere and I feel problem gamblers are always being set up for the next hit which will need to be bigger. I never won anything worth having...I once won a kite with a yoghurt manufacturers name printed all over it.:)...I wasnt bothered and it was a bit naff. Does that set me up to want to win something worth having in my life?

We have felt the rush of endorphin or feeling of expectation since Humans first walked the earth. I would say the gambling dens now use this in the most cynical and calculated way its ever been. Its just completely out of control now.

Im talking in particular about fruit machines and FOTPs being fundamentally wrong and harmful. Its no wonder they create compulsive gamblers and therefore addicts. Casinos going online is just off the scale of deregulation

A spin every few seconds is extremely dangerous. The real odds of a top prize are nowhere to be found amongst all the advertising and flashing lights. Those odds can be 1.8000 upwards to 1.262,000 and even 1 in Millions depending on the machine. That needs putting at the top in big letters because any horse at those odds is effectively a no hoper in the race

The RTP is meaningless per session as its over the lifecycle of the machine possibly on a yearly basis. Its pretty meaningless knowing that figure per session. The machine will break you before it ever gets near its RTP. I ignored the odds playing for escape but the money did play a part

The bonus features and small wins are very effective in keeping people playing. Much of the RTP will come back in tiny wins which is not actually why most people are playing. The bonus is designed to fail you and antagonise leading to red mist play. Its deceptive and infact cruel because if the machine hardly ever payed only the higher amounts I feel it would snap more people out of it as a mugs game. The five reel electronic machines have stepped things up to a whole new level

I just think that we have to be wary about who is using this feeling of expectation to make money. That church fete might not be as innocent as you think 🙂

Best wishes to everyone on the forum

Near misses are another deliberately designed in feature in slot games and have been shown to produce as big or bigger chemical reactions in the brain as a win. It's completely possible the same reaction occurs in children. They have been seen to fixate on winning a particular prize and been seen to play to extinction trying to get it. I've seen toy bingo games in the classroom, 'behaviour bingo' cards on desks and raffle tickets issued for good behaviour entered into an end of week draw. None of these things existed when I was at school. They might not be playing for money but it all introduces then reinforces the dopamine hit that the addict's brain craves. Until there's research disproving any connection why would we endorse it?

Joydivider, Lethe ... excellent posts. A must read for anyone wanting to learn about how this habit often begins, from what seems like innocuous and unexpected sources.

This has more than a whiff of moral panic.

1. If your child is programmed to enter a world of gambling destruction, triggered by entering a school T*****a- if your child is at such a risk, then you witholding the £1 will not stop this collision course on a long term basis.
2. You're clearly projecting your own issues on your child, in a way which is irrational.

If you say 'no quiz', on the basis of some abstract link to gambling, then where do you draw the line? No competition sport as a 'win' could trigger a dopamine rush. No success academically for same reason.

Obviously we've all experienced a lot of deep hurt through gambling, but lashing out indiscriminately doesn't seem the answer.

Louis

Louis

Like many rhetorical questions, there's no easy answer to this. We want the best for our children, and, naturally don't want them to make the same mistakes we did. We want them to be competitive, to succeed, to work hard and reap the rewards. The 'rush' of success, of victory, is sweet and to be encouraged. At the same time, we want to tell them there's no such thing as easy money (by gambling).

Is erring on the side of caution a bad thing ... it's all a personal decision. The best I can do, as a parent, is swerve from any from of true gambling, thus minimising the chance of a take-up with my child. For my child, quizzes for prizes, tombolas and the like, that's fine in my eyes. Online games, especially for points, and 'coins' is no-no. Bingo games at school, for that 'near win' experience - I don't really like that either.

If we do things, for the best, then what will happen will be, comparitively, for the best.

A very interesting thread this!

Afternoon all,

A very interesting thread.

I’m just debating do I reset my 800 days plus non gambling counter as I’ve taken part in a pub quiz and played the T*****a with my son at a village fete this week?

I’m gonna say no purely because the cost of admission (£1.00 and 50p respectively) was good value for money in terms of entertainment.

Have I gambled......no.

Do I feel better equipt to guide my son in the event he develops a gambling addiction/binge.......yes.

I say cross these bridges if you come to it, but the local village fayre and cake raffle at my school did not lead to gambling silliness.

Being a weak willed idiot with more credit facilities than I needed did. My responsibilities.......not great memories from growing up or a much needed relaxing night out.

Have a great bank holiday all.

Take care......Abet