Flickering lights

Hi HL , Once again in the absence of your own thread , I was making a comparison between yourself and CW regarding any sort of praise being given to CG's and nothing more and I wasn't looking for an explanation from you but read into it what you will .

Sorry for jumping in on your thread CW but nowhere else to leave a reply !

Maybe best to speak to Alan on his post about this potential spit/spat over a passing comment....
This is cw's post asking for advice on her relationship....

Hi,

Thanks for responses.

Feel free to tell it like it is, Rachel!!! I wouldn't want to stay under the illusion that it's all him and nothing whatsoever to do with me.

I took a lot over the years, in particular, trying to appease the unappeasable and it's not so easy to keep head in sand for four years, you get backache. It damaged both of us.

I am wary, it's not easy to trust in emotional terms and I recognise previous patterns of behaviour cropping up here. I was told for years that it's all my fault, that I'm paranoid, that black's white, that I want to know everything that doesn't concern me. When I hear more of the same, how on earth am I supposed to know whether It is indeed unequivocally me as he says or whether it is dry drunk as my common sense tells me?

re praise, we don't do enough of it, something else that has been pointed out to me and something else on a long list that we have to improve on. We both tend to shrug it off and we don't give enough of it.

My therapist has told me about seeing him as a person and not just as an addict. Fine, until addict type behaviour crops up again.

Surprising as it may sound, I do try but it's not easy.

CW

Cw I don't think I could give you any reasonable advice.
Although I believe it's not advice you need. But like us you need somewhere to write stuff down.
So you can somehow make sense of what's going on yourself.
Recovery I suspect is not a straightforward process for either side. Like the saying you have to take the rough with the smooth.
In any long term relationship there will be good and bad time's..
If there wasn't life would be pretty dull?
Personally I think maybe writing more on your diary would help you get things out that you tend to keep in?

All the best for you and your's

Ps I only popped in because there was a mention of iced cakes.
Please don't keep me I'm suspense did you manage the perfect one's?

Deano x

The party wasn't at our home and the quite presentable cup cakes got squashed on the journey.

Advice welcome. Thanks.

Cynical wife wrote:

Hi,

Thanks for responses.

Feel free to tell it like it is, Rachel!!! I wouldn't want to stay under the illusion that it's all him and nothing whatsoever to do with me.

I took a lot over the years, in particular, trying to appease the unappeasable and it's not so easy to keep head in sand for four years, you get backache. It damaged both of us.

I am wary, it's not easy to trust in emotional terms and I recognise previous patterns of behaviour cropping up here. I was told for years that it's all my fault, that I'm paranoid, that black's white, that I want to know everything that doesn't concern me. When I hear more of the same, how on earth am I supposed to know whether It is indeed unequivocally me as he says or whether it is dry drunk as my common sense tells me?

re praise, we don't do enough of it, something else that has been pointed out to me and something else on a long list that we have to improve on. We both tend to shrug it off and we don't give enough of it.

My therapist has told me about seeing him as a person and not just as an addict. Fine, until addict type behaviour crops up again.

Surprising as it may sound, I do try but it's not easy.

CW

You're not supposed to know, how can you? It's probably a bit of both, not ALL him and not ALL you. And what you call addict behaviour, is probably sometimes just 'behaviour'. Anyway, it's something for you and your husband to sort through by talking to each other, opinions are like noses, we've all got one but we're not there to see what's going on. Again, apologies if my 'telling it like it is' upset you.

Flickering lights is all what it is CW.
No marriage is perfect, chuck in a mix the emotions of regret and lack of trust and it all comes to the forefront when argument arises.

What else going around you presently? Maybe there are more reasons than just addiction rearing it's ugly head for him. Do you talk openly? I get the feeling of drifting apart, it is really scary & makes you think 100 other reasons why. Sometimes we shouldn't look for reasons, sometimes people just have a bad day/week or struggling themselves. That's where honesty and communication is v important.

You're both in recovery, trust will not come bk easy for you, but on the other hand mr CW is trying to right the wrongs. Not saying pat him on the back day in day out, just try and get a lil incling that addicts brains are a lil complex. Not your fault,not his fault. Addiction did it's job and unfortunately that's where you're looking for the clues when things gets a bit bumpy.

As Rach said, you're both human beings. You're worth fighting for each other & only you two know how much you have got to give.

I wish you well & sorry if i said something what upset you.

I see you as you are. Woman balancing the world on your hands and forgetting that you also need a rest now and again. From everything.
Take a breather - for you!

S x

=

Strange to read people say it's your fault and you should be giving more credit. Or. maybe not strange, but just classic CG viewpoints
...
It's cyber space and with a diary you only ever get one side. Gambling addiction is a very serious symptom and it's not just some other form of off-behaviour. It's easy to be normalised towards it, spending time on these forums. Amongst addicts there's mutual self interest to normalise it too, but it's a serious disorder.

Addiction doesn't always make a bad person but it does show some serious underlying emotional issue. You're not an addict. Doesn't make you a saint but it does suggest there might not be a level playing field between you two - in terms of your relative emotional functioning.

you describe yourself as being in recovery, but this is recovery for quite different reasons.

You're going far in terms of knowledge about addiction and your own recovery. That surely brings freedom. But it also makes you realise what he should aiming for, and so brings frustration.

I understand caution on your part if there appears to be a lack of commitment towards genuine recovery. That's the nature of hurt and loss of trust.

Wish you well.

Louis

Thanks again, input much appreciated and no offence is taken.

I'm not due to be canonised any time soon but as Loius says, the absence of a level playing field is a real problem that won't fix quickly.

Rachel, control freak as I may yet be, I need a grounding in reality ie to know what's real and what's not. Having my own common sense and judgement telling me black and him telling me white is harmful. As f&f, we make a bad situation a whole lot worse when we lose faith in our own judgement.

He's been gf for almost 18 months and he's made a huge effort to change but just recently things have gone backwards. Outside my control, I can only change me (much to be done there) and hope that he resumes working on him.

Thanks again.

Hi CW , thanks for the reply . My post wasn't meant in anyway as an attack nor to say "you should do something like this " , were all so different and I don't know anymore how you and your husband interact than you would with my partner and myself . I just think sometimes we live in a world of fear as a result of what gambling does to both sides , so fixated on never going back for the gambler and never allowing yourself to be duped from the injured party's side and it mAkes us cold to real life and emotions ? I know my partner comments on my gambling past occasionally and gives me a little pat on the back for working at my recovery and being transparent in any way she sees fit , I in turn give her praise for her help and ongoing support and the fact she didn't walk away when she so easily could have done . It's life and little things can make all the difference to us all , if we get no feedback or praise we sometimes think what's the point if no one notices the effort I'm putting in ? Just my take on things :)) I'm sure you'll work things out in time , its hiccups along the way and never easy for either party ? . I'm sorry to read of HL leaving , I want having a dig yesterday but merely making a comparison but o don't think it went down to well , hopefully she'll return but as with us all it's our choice to leave or stay . Wishing you well Alan

Ive never really seen the point of people attending GA if they are not going to follow the program. GA without sponsorship & steps is just folk sitting around repeating war stories. Nothing wrong with people doing that but i would question if its a GA meeting in the true sense without two of the most important aspects of the program.

You talk of dry drunk behaviour being evident. My experience is that this is commonplace & sadly the norm amongst addicts. Rationalizing that gambling was the problem, so now i havnt gambled for a week, a month or even years then i no longer have a problem right?

The Steps teach us that we have a me problem & that gambling was a symptom of our dysfunctional way of thinking & living. After laying the foundation of Step 1, gambling isnt really mentioned again.

Nothing is more central to recovery than increasing our ability to function in loving rewarding relationships. This is what the Steps are guiding you to do.
Having a sponsor is how you learn to do this. They are your guinea pig for practicing a(in most cases) first attempt at being 100% honest & vulnerable with another human being. Once they have learnt that rejection & judgement arent the result of such trust, they can then hopefully carry that into real life with others.

My first step in building new relationships was to be willing to look at me & my part in it, not at what others were doing, as i cant control that.
Taking a look at me meant identifying & dealing with my self defeating learnt behaviours that had prohibited me from having more honest relationships.

Hi CW
My early experience of GA was one of abstinence based meetings. The Program wasnt talked about on a regular basis. Mostly talk of how your week had been. Some talking for 20mins on how their dog was ill or a flat tyre they had changed.
When the literature was discussed it was usually to dismiss it as nonsense & that it didnt apply to us. Or that we were doing the Steps but in a different order or in our own way or only doing the bits we fancied.
We werent gambling right, so why did we need to do more?

I bought into this fantasy. Its what i wanted to hear. A mixture of barriers, a feel good factor of stopping & a little more cash around seemed enough.

It wasnt. I knew it wasnt but didnt fancy the work involved in recovery. I think it was around the two year mark when i began to think. This actually sucks! Im not gambling, but my life is still unmanageable. Im still empty, my family arent enough alone, somethings missing.

I actually felt worse than when i was gambling. At least when i was, i had something to blame for my bad choices, behaviour & my feeling of worthlessness.

So i changed how the meeting i attended ran. I read all i could around addiction & the Steps. I knew no one in the Fellowship who did the Steps, so went through them myself. I wouldnt advise anybody do it without a sponser, but i felt i had no choice. I look back at my first attempts at working the Program & its hilarious. Full of lies, denial, egotistical bs. But it got me interested & started & by talking about it, others began to take an interest also.

We began to do regular bookwork & step discussion in the meetings & gradually all began to at least have a rudimentry understanding of them.

I did a few more self worked versions of the program on my own, each becoming more honest & truthful before finding a sponser in 2013, 6 years after walking into the Fellowship. I mainly sought one out for Step 5. But he has helped immensley & called me out often in my desire to control & dictate how others should feel & behave.

It saddens me greatly i had to find most of these things for myself. It should be every GA groups primary purpose to teach The Program, but that is not the case. 95% of meetings ignore what GA stands for in favour of reciting barriers as recovery. They are not. Stopping gambling isnt enough for recovery for most, as you are seeing first hand. Recovery involves so much more.

Now something i hear often at other meetings is that the Steps are optional, take what you want & that their is no time frame to begin them or work them all.
Complete nonsense, the literature says nothing of the sort.
It says if you want recovery here is what you must do (The 12 Steps) & that you must do them as a matter of urgency. No discussion.

Your husband sounds as if he is commited to the Fellowship but not The Program. He is in the majority sadly. If its not taught, how do people learn.

Hopefully he finds the motivation for change sooner rather than later. His success so far should be applauded as should yours.
My first post about defining recovery, i feel is one that needs talking about between you as it is clearly causing friction. Your expectations seem far removed from his. Maybe you can find some middle ground from which you can both move forward from.

Hi CW,

Just popping across to say thank you for your post on my diary.

It is genuinely appreciated as I know you have been on the other end and yes you're probably right that I should come clean.

Hope you are doing fine.