How serious is my girlfriend's problem?

Hi,

I'd recommend the GC counselling, rather than general, also the GamAnon meetings and their literature. It's helped me to see the wood from the trees. Manipulation for what it is. The addict behaviour for what it is. Anger is a v useful tool, it makes any challenger back off, also it distracts from the point that the challenger is trying to make.

As you grow stronger and more able to stand up to her, she'll get more angry.

Look after yourself.

CW

Hi CB - when you love someone you want to see the best in them, you look for excuses and reasons why they are doing this. We as non gamblers find it difficult to understand how they have became so addicted we wonder why can't they just stop! We want to say stop wasting money and time doing this! It isn't a happy life for a cg, it's an addiction. You have bailed your girlfriend out many times now how many more times are you going to manage to do it without getting into financial trouble yourself and as you say there is no thanks from her, all she is focuses on is the addiction. she doesn't sound as if she wants to stop at the moment. If you want to try and make a go of this relationship you are going to have to be tough!! It is going to have to come from you as she will get no support from her family if they gamble themselves. This is going to be very difficult for you. Without her agreeing to anything I don't know how you will manage. If she wanted to stop there are many ways you could help her such as self excluding, taking control of her banking. I have only been on here 4 weeks but have learned so much from other people on here, gamblers and non gamblers, they all offer good advice. Yake this time apart to try and think of what you want from this relationship. It is different for me he is my son I can't nor would I walk away from him. You do have that choice, you aren't married or have children. It's going to be a tough decision for you. I'm sure because you love her you will worry what will become of her, how will she manage. Ask yourself how did she manage before you met? Keep reading everything you can on here, it tends to take your life over until you come up with a plan. I just wanted to 'fix' everything for my son but they have got to work with you, you can not help them unless they are willing to put some work in and help themselves. Take care. Wcid

cw, wcid,

Thank you! Much food for thought here and really helpful points. The bottom line as I see it is that she doesn't want to help herself. She's deep in denial and I don't see that changing any time soon. Because I've spoken to her about gambling over the past few months she is now far less open with me about her gambling. I think she does realise deep down that she has a problem but spends most of her time hiding from this realization. Even if she were to admit her problem to herself I don't see her admitting to anyone else that she has a problem and certainly don't see her seeking help: she's extremely proud and private and would never do this. So even if she does admit to herself, she will be trying to stop gambling without any support and in the face of a family culture in which gambling is entrenched. I just don't see that happening. her brother once told me that he'd like to stop gambling and when I told her that we'd had a conversation she broke me off by saying "was he saying strange things about gambling again? I hope you told him that's his choice and nothing to do with us". After that point the brother's gambling has hardened along with hers and it seems there is even less chance of either of them stopping. Her attitude towards not gambling is negative: non-gamblers are "boring" to her. It's hard. I guess the point is.... She has to do this herself and if she's not willing when presented with information, support and options, then all I can do is try to protect myself from the negative consequences of her addiction.

I guess maybe now is time for me to be thinking about where the lines are to be drawn and being firm in not weakening when she crosses them.

Sounds so much easier to do than it actually is :0

If non gamblers are so boring why is she with you? I really wish I had better news for you but as a CG, with a CG mum, I have nothing! My mum is super clever (no common sense mind) but she does not have an aggressive bone in her body & yet she is able to twist my words so badly that I start doubting myself! I was a very proud person, many CG's are & I refused to accept I had a problem because I held down a job, had a car, a roof over my head! My mum lives rent free in my flat, drives a car I bought her, retired early, has stolen from me whilst I slept, pawned family jewellery she was 'looking after', taken out a log book loan (to name but a few) & still maintains that "ooo, you're so much worse than me!" I have tried everything in my power to get her into recovery with me, all in vain! Gambling itself is a mental health problem & many people on here used it as a tool to try & escape depression/rubbish lives but she is not so poorly that she hasn't figured out you are a meal ticket for her so love her & care about her but not to the detriment of your own health & sanity! Active CG's are very unpleasant to live with & everytime you don't follow through on an ultimatum, she will see it as a green light to continue! I see you have had counselling, don't forget there is a National Domestic Violence helpline out there too...Men are victims too!

I wish you all the strength in the world to make the right decisions for you - ODAAT

Thanks ODAAT,

Yes, everything you say sounds familiar. She's like a Jedi when it comes to twisting words! Also memories! My favourite incident was when my shirt sleeve rode up to reveal a huge bruise she'd given me. "Who did that? Is someone doing that to you?" She asked, implying it was whatever imaginary woman she thought I'd been texting. I looked at her and said "don't you remember? You did it. And you did these too" and stretched down the neck of my t shirt to show the bruises on my chest. "You're crazy" she said, "I didn't do those and I could never have bruised you, I'm not strong enough to. Who did it?" At that point I was so close to leaving her but stayed. She's only once assaulted me after that point; perhaps the second time wouldnt qualify as an assault: she jumped on me and started biting my lip, spitting at me "**** off" between bites before claiming to have a recording of me calling a girl from her bathroom (of course this call had never happened). The abusive behaviour has reduced greatly after I called her on it and told her that it was an abusive and a manipulative relationship. But clearly its still very problematic. It's a relationship that has been shaped in these ways to facilitate her needs and behaviours. Trying to redefine the boundaries of the relationship isn't only about the wider state of the relationship but it's also central to being able to challenge her addictive behaviour. How to redefine the relationship is challenging. Maybe it is too late. But I do care about her enough to give it another try. I also have to care enough about myself to ensure that I protect myself.

Right now one of the hardest things for me is that I don't have a great deal of wider support. My close friends have made it clear to me that they don't like this relationship and can see the ways in which it affected my life; one has said "if you stay with her our friendship is over". My family feel similarly. IF - and it's a big if - it is possible to redefine the relationship, it would take a while for those who care about me to be comfortable in supporting me in the relationship. So I'm kind of on my own. I'm not willing to tolerate any more paranoid accusations, I'm not willing to tolerate not being allowed to use my phone, I'm not willing to tolerate being seen as the meal ticket, and I'm not going to tolerate gambling at its current levels. I'm not going to tolerate a continuation of the relationship in its current form. The problem is that her zero-sum approach to things and her unwillingness to negotiate or discuss things seriously means that negotiating new boundaries is out of the question, so I have to be ready to set and keep ultimatums when necessary, and to refuse to give in when she crosses my lines and boundaries.

She's clearly a survivor who survived fine before she met me, and she will survive after our relationship ends whenever that may be. But I can't help but think this time if she doesn't wise up quickly she is going to crash and burn - the gambling addiction has affected her life more than she admits. That's hard to see...

She seems to have attitudes towards life that are going to stand in the way of changing her life. She seems to overestimate the importance of luck and of "tricks" to beat the system but she seems to underestimate the importance of hard work and she's often very irresponsible (drink driving conviction for example). I don't know whether her thought processes and values made her more susceptible to gambling addiction or whether years of gambling has affected and warped her outlook on life, but she really overestimated the power of luck and "tricks" and underestimated effort and responsibility.

It's hard to watch someone we care about self destructing but you must put yourself 1st! The second incident that you question was an assault the second she used force on you, what came after constitutes a prolonged attack!

I can completely see why people you are close to you want you to get out but that's no excuse for them to give up on you! We will not do that here! I don't like that she is hurting you like this (mental abuse is still domestic violence) but I am pleased that you are going to be taking steps to look after yourself!

Keep us close & look after you - ODAAT

ODAAT -

Thank you! I've been through hell in this relationship. Maybe I just need out. I can't understand why I still love her. If I didn't I'd be gone. I never imagined I'd end up getting in a relationship like this nor that id stay in it. She constantly accused me of lying but the number of lies she tells ... Of course, when she lies it doesn't count. I find it difficult to believe someone could be as selfish and manipulative as she is, and on top of everything else to be an addicted gambler. I think I'm only now starting to wake up to the extent of her problems. what is happening I don't know. Maybe I just need to get out. It's the one thing my family and friends all want, and they want it for a reason: because they care about me and my welfare. She doesn't care one bit about my welfare. I can't remember the last time she genuinely or sincerely asked how I am, how my day was... Thanks, ODAAT, you are right that I need to understand all of this for what it is and make decisions for my own welfare.

You are not alone in loving someone that is bad for you...Many victims of domestic violence stay with their abusers because they love them! Look @ all the loved ones on this site that have put up with stuff because they can still see the people they love in there somewhere! Yours is an abusive relationship even though the violence has abated & I'm not going to lie, I am fearful for you laying down boundaries 🙁 Please ensure you stay safe when you speak about your concerns & apologies but I just had a touch of the seconds & realised that the info I gave you earlier is for female victims with all female call takers. I've looked on line & Refuge which support that line have support pages for men but Mankind have a 24hr helpline funded until Jan...I will try & attach the link but I suspect that you probably know your way round the Internet much better than I!

http://new.mankind.org.uk/

No need to make any rash decisions & when you make them, make them for you not for the people around you! I'm not sure how much scope you'll have over Christmas but if you're feeling a little bit isolated, may be worth having a look to see if there is a GamAnon meeting nearby!

Hope you have managed to make some new plans for the holiday (even if it's just sitting around naked, scratching your bits, that's what my OH does when I'm not home, using your phone) & are feeling a bit better for 'talking' this out!

Hello, again, CB,

I repeat what I said earlier - the help and support is there but it's down to you to accept it, to help yourself. It does take huge effort and guts at the outset but with the right help and support, your situation will improve and it will all get easier.

And if you don't bother? If you keep making excuses not to? It's not that bad? I'd be lost if she goes? She'd be lost if she goes? Well, why did you post here in the first place if everything is ok?

Bear with me whilst I write about my recent experience, preferably without hijacking your thread. I've just engineered - with outside specialist help - a second major confrontation with my husband. He has been abstaining since June but still behaves like an addict. He goes to GA but refused point blank any counselling or therapy to address the internal, emotional aspect. Our family situation had become intolerable again and the only person who could change things was me. He wasn't about to. I had sympathetic friends and colleagues but the buck stopped with me.

Getting my husband into the Therapist's office was one of the hardest things that I have ever had to do but the Therapist, highly skilled, was able to tell him what I couldn't. My husband heard the Therapist where he wouldn't hear me. Since then, on a one day at a time basis, things have improved.

I said it was hard. At one point, when I was dithering to the Therapist as to whether to just leave it, the Therapist told me that I sounded like a classic victim and made me repeat out loud the reasons why I had sought his help in the first place.

I hope this helps you. Take care,

CW

Hi concernedboyfriend

You sound like a lovely guy and you dont deserve to be treated in this way. I know you still love your OH but I think you need to take a step back while you can and think about what YOU are getting out of this relationship. I really think it's time to start putting your happiness first as I am sure you've done all you can (and more than most would) to help your girlfriend. Take care.

CW,

Thanks for your advice. You're right. The issue that stops me being more forceful in trying to get her to therapy or other support (and believe me, she has such trust and paranoia issues I think she really needs therapy for many reasons) is her personality. She's incapable of admitting anything she perceives as a weakness or of opening up to people. Simple tasks in daily life are turned into melodramas in which she's always the victim. One tiny example: she received a cheque on which a mistake had been made with her initial. On seeing the money wasn't yet in her account we went to the bank who told her that the cheque couldn't be paid in because the name didn't match that on her account so they had posted it back to her. Simple enough, but she began getting angry at their incompetence (they were simply being responsible), and got worse when it emerged that she had never updated her address with the bank so the cheque had gone not even to her previous flat but the one before that: "how stupid sending it to god knows where" was her attitude, and she still can't understand that the bank behaved correctly in not clearing the cheque and that the cheque being sent to the wrong address was her responsibility. Even after a replacement cheque was arranged (by me contacting the issuer) she had lost all trust in the bank because of their stupidity: she is the least self aware person I have ever met, and she cannot take responsibility in basic daily tasks, whether that be sleeping, doing her studies, managing her gambling time, or even dealing with a basic daily chore in the bank. When that's how she is in normal daily life, you can imagine what she is like when serious issues surface and while i don't want to lose her that's not the reason for not being more forceful about getting her to help; in this my concern is that she's so paranoid, she's so quick to perceive any constructive input on anything as a personal attack, so untrusting, so quick to lash out and assume that even small things in daily life are somehow always rooted in other people harming her, and she's so stubborn, that I fear any attempt to be more forceful will just backfire and harden her resolve not to get help and to continue gambling. She has such a negative attitude towards therapy and help that I think she'd just walk out, and she can't speak openly about real problems at all, she can't manage basic things and ordinary daily emotions are trapped inside her going round ik her mind until everything overwhelms her. Hiw I can get her to seek and access help is difficult. Your partner is really lucky to have such a strong, resourceful and determined person alongside him and I'm full of admiration at how you have dealt with his situation. As I read your message I feel he is very lucky to have had you alongside him and to have had this kind of intervention, and credit to him also for accepting it.

ODAAT - thank you for yor words. To be honest, at my lowest points I was calling the all Wales domestic abuse helpline (now renamed Live Fear Free) as they also deal with men, they were fantastic when I was trying to get away from a situation that had become incredibly toxic and damaging. Even my clothing was controlled; any effort on my part to buy new clothes would meet with "you have too many shirts like that already" and I'f be recycling dirty clothes for work because she objected so strongly to me washing my clothes too often. To get to my house to just clean it would be met with emotional blackmail not to go ("it will look bad and my brother and his gf will gossip and then my mother will find out and she will think it's not normal" and on and on, or a failure to believe that I really might need to go to my home o get a bag or a book or just to clean). It has been hugely controlling and restrictive, I'm not te kind of person who would end up in such a manipulative and abusive situation and I don't know how it happened, but it did bit by bit. I entered therapy to work out how I let this happen to myself so I can then manage it better and see if it's possible to redefine a relationship with such a controlling and paranoid person who is deep into an addiction and in denial. My finances aren't good as a result of the relationship - really bad in fact, but I have just bought myself a new guitar having sold all my guitars, and I've started a band with someone at work and while she is away and I'm free to socialize without being accused of having secret lovers or secret friends we will practice ready for an open mic performance in January. Friendships have been badly damaged by te relationship and the restrictions on my ability to use my phone or interact with people. But people have seen that I have been going through a bad time for the past year or so, even when they don't know the story, and I've formed new friendships as colleagues have rallied around me to make sure I'm okay. On 22nd one colleague dropped by my office and told me she was going to take me to see Star Wars. Others have noticed money seems tight and offered me loans; I accepted two small loans so I could afford to get into work in October and pay a bill, but I've rejected the larger loans I've been offered as I don't need more debt and don't want to spread the harm and damage to other people. I feel touched that when she was accusing me of lying about having run dry, accusing me of having a secret love child that had taken all my money, and accusing me of lying about the size of my salary and savings, other people rallied around me and wanted to help because they could see without being told exactly what she refused to believe after I had clearly told her. My Christmas will be quiet one then, tonight I'll read in front of my fire (I still have one of those in my humble place, tomorrow I'll spend the day at my sister's with my parents, Saturday a friend I have may be in town in which case I'll have a beer with him, and I hope that Sunday will be practice for the music performance. Things are so much better than they were even a month ago, when I was still completely isolated. My family were deeply worried about me because she was so paranoid about my phone I couldn't use it and it was hard to find time during work hours to contact them. So I became socially very isolated but as part of trying to step out of the role of victim in an abusive and manipulative relationship I've started to rebuild, thanks to people at work reaching out to me when they have seen "this is not the confident, strong, popular guy we knew" and started to get concerned that something was seriously wrong with me. And the support here is really helpful too, because while I'm being positive and constructive to rebuild a life and not be the victim any longer, obviously my social life isn't as rich or healthy as it used to be and I don't really have friendships in the way I used to any more; and of course the few who know the truth about the situation just want me far away from it and are wary of supporting me to stay in something that they fear will drag me down. I guess that means I have to be much stronger and stop the abuse from happening to me, to set boundaries and stick to them which I know is more easily said than done. I'm still isolated but far less isolated and taking steps every day to improve things and make new starts. Thanks to you and all here for reaching out with your support. It really helps.

Hi, CB,

One further thought - I'm glad to see that you are reaching out for the help but once again it's down to you as to whether or not to follow the advice and suggestions, to make changes.

The idea would be to change your own behaviour and your responses to hers. I've heard it described like a choreographed dance, the addict uses and then everyone else goes through their own moves in response. No one likes it but they all do it. So you change your moves and the whole dance changes.

She threatens to go? Instead of backing off and appeasing her, offer her help to pack.

My intervention took place after six months of my husband abstaining and attending GA meetings, I wasn't starting from scratch. Contrary to my expectations, (based on what he had vehemently told me), I didn't actually need to spell out the ultimatum this time. But although I was shaking, I would have had no choice but to follow the ultimatum through.

Focus on you.

CW

Thanks, CW. My next big boundary is Christmas Day. She planned to bring her dog to the uk in January and asked me to book a flight to France with her dog and then drive there to collect them both (as it's cheaper than flying to the UK), and she'd refund me for the ticket. I booked; of course no refund. If I don't receive so much as a message on Christmas Day then that's a line crossed and I won't be collecting them and how she will get back from France with the dog will be her problem. I'm not here as an enabler to be used without receiving anything in return. If she does send me a Christmas message then I will keep to my part of the bargain but the next line in the sand will have to be her gambling and the next time she mentions casino I have to give the ultimatum that it's the casino or the relationship. Her desperation to gamble is so extreme that the night before she flew home she announced that she and her brother had decided we would all watch a film together and then at midnight leave for the casino where we would spend all night until leaving for the airport to catch her 6am flight. I pointed out that I had work the next day and couldn't just spend a night in a casino so she kindly offered me a couple of hours sleep while they watch a film.... She has to squeeze in gambling whenever she can, no matter how irresponsible and selfish is her plan. well, no more. There are many problems to solve in the relationship and she has many problems in her life that are about to come to a head even without the gambling. But the addiction is where I have to start because it's around the addiction that she becomes most selfish and arrogant, and it's as a result of the addiction that she will face many other practical problems (with her studies, her money). I can't go on like this, and if that means I lose her then the reality is simple: if she continues gambling at her current level I'll end up taking on more expense to ensure she's okay and based on the expense to me before I began shutting down the money supply, if that were to happen then I would end up losing my house. If it's lose her or lose everything I've worked for then I have no choice. The whole nature of the relationship must change and she must realise that recognizing her addiction is a crucial thing to do. Thanks CW, you're right that things must change. The challenge for me is now not just to talk the talk but to put it into practice with someone who is very paranoid, has been violent, is addicted and very manipulative. That's a big ask but I guess this is last chance saloon. As things stand the relationship is dead because I'm not in a relationship with her at all, but in a relationship with her gambling addiction / obsession.

It's very difficult though. How do all you partners / family of CGs manage? I'm always left feeling bad. I couldn't go to spend Christmas with her because it would mean casinos and now I feel bad for letting her down and disappointing her family who were expecting me and making plans. But if I had gone I would have been in the difficult position of being expected to join them in their casino sessions and apart from the fact that I cannot afford to do that and don't want to do that it would be just being complicit in her addiction and I can't do that any more. It would also betray the people who have tried to rally round me and offer some support to me. My family don't currently know we are still together (if we are indeed still together - my family would be mortified if they thought she was still part of my life and when I did tell my mother I'd been invited to spend Christmas with her she told me that my father would never forgive me for going. She said "going would betray everyone and the only way you can redeem yourself is by not going. People have helped you and you can't just go running to see the person who has affected your life and well being in so many ways". I'm feeling very lonely right now and I know that's because she turned this into a possessive and controlling codependent relationship (all er close relationships are codependent), which is something I'm not used to and something that's unhealthy, and that she did this to facilitate her life and gain control. So I know that in order to address the gambling addiction she has and change the nature of the relationship I have to weather this, the loneliness is a symptom of the u healthy and dysfunctional relationship and must be weathered. But there you have it... Not easy dealing with CGs...

Hi CB what a turmoil you are in. You can hear all the thoughts going around in your head. I was the same when I found out about my son although with him he seems be accepting our help in controlling his finances and is mood has become better than it was. Your girlfriend has more problems than gambling alone doesn't she. This is going to be a hard task for you. You say you love her, do you not want to be in a relationship where the other person lives and respects you as much as you them? Where you are equals? Where you don't have to explain yourself constantly. I'm pleased you have support from friends. If you are close to your family it must be hard keeping the relationship a secret from them. You have some huge choices to make when your girlfriend comes back, seems to me there is only you willing to fight this battle. I hope you manage to have a nice Christmas Day and can look forward to a good 2016 with or without her. Wcid