Is it a problem?

Hello Something and welcome to the forum.

It may help you to talk through your concerns with one of the Gamcare advisors and get some support for yourself. Problem gambling and the loss of trust it brings can put relationships under strain. The helpline 0808 8020 133 the helpline is open 8am -midnight everyday. Advisors can also be contacted on the netline http://www.gamcare.org.uk/support-and-counselling/frontline-services/netline#.VxsxKvkrIdU

People who problem gamble often need help and support to stop gambling It can help to encourage your husband to contact the helpline where he can talk with an advisor about the support available. There is group support with Gamblers Anonymous and there is also counselling your husband can access free for twelve sessions. Counselling services are across the UK and helpline advisors can find your nearest service. Counselling is also available for family and friends and there is no cost for the counselling sessions.

You say you dont really feel you have the right to control the finances however if you feel you can and want to do this it can be a way to support your husband and look after yourself and your family financially . For someone with a problem gambling when having access to money it can be very difficult for the person not to gamble. Please see the link attached that has some guidlines for you looking after yourself and supporting you husband where you can. http://www.gamcare.org.uk/get-support/partners-friends-and-family#.Vxs0xvkrIdU

Keep posting we are here to support you.

Forum admin

Morning,

First time round, I suppressed the warning voice in my head, ignored some pretty obvious red flags and hoped he would stop as he said he would, that it would all go away. It didn't. It was never going to because addiction is progressive. But I didn't appreciate just how red those flags were, I didn't have adequate support and it was easier at the time to go along with his denials. I don't recommend jumping off the same cliff. Addiction is progressive, unchecked, the bets increase in amount and frequency, the losses increase and the outflow of cash is unsustainable, bills stop being paid, vital outgoings are gambled away. And the lies, deceit and blame increase as well.

The best advice is to carry on doing what you are doing, to get the support and information for you to cope with the situation you're in. He can sort himself out if he chooses to, but you can't do it for him, don't try. For you, it's about how much more of the same and worse you're prepared to tolerate. And information is key, otherwise you end up accepting the blame, going along with the manipulation and not knowing if black is black. Do read the forum, both sides. If you can get to GamAnon, it would be worthwhile. And there's a helpline and counselling available from GC.

One other thing to watch out for is appeasements and half measures. You can't trust a CG, protect yourself by not doing so, regardless of protests and charm. The gambling is out of control, there's an addiction to the process of gambling and for an active CG, only the next bet matters. There is no such thing as controlled betting at a minimal level, experiments with this always fail because the compulsion will take over and one little bet invariably leads to the next. Will power alone melts away. Also beware of half measures with barriers, offers for you to manage some accounts but not others, unblocked devices for on line betting, most on line accounts closed down but one sneaky one left open, credit that you don't know about.

I stayed this time round because my husband, having behaved lower than I could ever have thought possible, then demonstrated a commitment to stopping, he handed over full financial control, cooperates with high barriers, attends GA meetings and as far as I know, he has been gamble free for about ten months and intends to do what it takes to stay that way. But even then, it's really hard, the damage has been extensive and years of addict behaviour takes a long time to reverse.

Protect yourself financially, have what assets you can in your name, don't share PINs and passwords, manually enter login details. Get the £2 credit reports from the three credit reference agencies so you can see all accounts for yourself.

Hope this helps, look after yourself.

CW

Thank you for the comments; CW, your personal experience is especially helpful. My husband has agreed to self-exclude for one year and reluctantly to seek couples counselling. I will also attend counselling sessions on my own for more support. I have all banking log in details and have signed up to the three credit agencies. I hope with my whole heart that this will nip it in the bud, but if not, I'm protected and prepared. Thanks again CW. You're one strong woman. X

Hi, again,

I don't like the sound of one year SE, there is a fallacy that SE is offered to give thinking space or some such nonsense. The reality is that once addiction has set in, there's no going back to responsible gambling. Drinking doesn't make a person an alcoholic but once they are addicted, they can't safety drink again because the addiction takes away the control. Equivalent for gambling, a year's holiday is meaningless because the addiction will resume where it left off when the SE ends. There are reports from the other side of the forum about offers of free bets/spins etc sent by the marketing department as soon as the SE has ended and people have found themselves caught up in it all over again. To avoid this, I wrote letters quoting all identifying details that he signed (this time round) asking for permanent SE and no more contact by any means. He was refunded what was (or wasn't) due to him by card, he didn't have to go back on the site.

re counselling, you absolutely should go for you, to get the support you need, but it's no good expecting much from him if he's in denial - he'll just persist in saying the problems are your fault or imaginary. We had dry addiction for several months after he stopped, where he wasn't gambling but the behaviour was no better, manipulation, mood swings, projected blame etc. The kids and I were at the end of our tethers, I consulted an experienced Therapist who works with addicts and their families. My husband was opposed to any marriage guidance but knowing that we would otherwise split, he sees this Therapist, I see a separate therapist and we also have joint sessions with four of us. It's starting to pay off - just for today - but change takes time.

Focus on you and what you need, take care.

CW

Thank you both so much for taking the time to respond. I think I'd feel a lot more alone and certainly a lot more naive if I hadn't found this forum. Last night my husband asked my permission to visit a bookies to place sports bets in person. Part of me thought this would be a lot better than the constant accessibility and temptation of the online gambling he was doing before, however all I said was that this sounded like a bad idea, that it was an environment of temptation; that I obviously couldn't stop him but that I wasn't going to give him my blessing. He said "we'll see". I feel perhaps you two know him better than I do at the moment!

Morning,

A CG who is committed to his recovery said the following at an open GA meeting: I want to stay dry, so I avoid wet places.

Sorry but it doesn't sound promising, more like half measures to get fussy old you off his back whilst leaving the door wide open to gamble. Changing poison isn't the same thing as overcoming his addiction to the process of gambling. It's like an alcoholic suggesting that he should go to a pub instead of a club in order to drink less.

He can afford it now but eventually the net outflow of cash will become unsustainable. You can't choose recovery for him but you can decide whether you want to live your life with him spending the entire household money and more on his selfish pursuit, lying, denying, blaming, manipulating. Surely you and your children deserve better?

Is he prepared to try GA and follow their advice? If not, some hard choices lie ahead.

Look after you.

CW

A direct quote from my husband:

"I don't believe I am addicted. I believe I can bet moderately, if I want to. However, you clearly don't. And for that reason, I'm prepared to stop all of it."

Is it possible I've majorly over reacted and there is no real threat here? Perhaps this comes down to our differing attitudes to money? Or is this denial? I'm so confused. It's consuming me and I seem to be on my own. He doesn't think it's an issue, his mother doesn't think it's an issue, the counsellor said she doesn't know if she can help if he doesn't think there's a problem. But the hundreds of bets monthly on his internet banking account make me wary.

How do you know?

You know because of the transactions on his bank statements. You KNOW. Ignore what you know at your peril.

On the other hand, you're amid denial. So repeat the advice to get targeted help for you from appropriate sources, that is, sources that specialise in addiction and gambling - a marriage counsellor will not know what the members at a GamAnon meeting know.

Look after yourself.

CW

PS. I had a similar line first time round and this is second and last time round.

Thank you for your honesty CW, and for continuing to read my posts, when you obviously have your own traumas. Last night we had a(nother) heart-to-heart and discussed our issues. He admitted that his gambling had been a problem lately and that he would self-exclude, apply web blockers, try to quit completely and seek counselling with me. He also said that he felt under a lot of pressure to provide for our family; that he's been under stress since his dad died five years ago, and our first child was born shortly after; that I have made most of our big life decisions in the last few years and that I have not seemed happy despite his efforts to provide for our family. I felt this was somewhat unreasonable, but we also agreed that he may be depressed, so I can understand that he would feel resentful towards me.

Unfortunately, today I logged in and downloaded his historical banking transactions. I realised the problem goes back a lot further than I ever thought. I told him about my findings tonight and he tried to justify it by saying my figure included winnings that he had deposited back into his account. I feel like we're back to square one.

I feel like I am grieving for the relationship I thought I had. I have this constant heaviness and sense of loss. And it feels like a battle I can't win.

This sounds just like my situation. Intuition is telling me he is up to something again -he never opens bank statements, his pc and phone are password protected, he can't look me in the eye. We are not stupid, we KNOW when they are lying.

Do you keep your money separate from his? I do,

Hi Starlet. That's one of my biggest concerns. He's our family's sole earner. I stay at home with our children.

He got home tonight from visiting his mum. I told him I think he needed to admit an addiction once and for all. He packed a bag and walked out.

Hi Something and welcome to the forum 🙂

Trying to quit completely sounds ominous...I think it is the qualifying 'completely' that concerned me. He sounds like me 🙁 I told myself for years I didn't have a problem, could stop if I wanted to & yet every single time I decided I would stop, I changed my mind & convinced myself I didn't need to because this time I would only spend X amount! I say X amount because I know that the 'just a tenner' that I started out planning became a hell of a lot more...So much so that when I 1st entered recovery & planned myself a little treat for doing so well, I kinda figured I needed @ least a thousand to have a real good time & make my millions (on a £500 jackpot machine!?)! My mum (also a CG) said once that she gambled to forget (my sister died a few years ago), brilliant, now I had an excuse! To my eternal shame I was rolling around in bed one night in a sea of tears because of how much of a pickle I'd gotten into again & when asked why, I echoed her reason! Lots of people do gamble to escape, I am still unclear as to why I thought gambling thousands & thousands of pounds was ever going to make me rich but I would have said anything that sounded like a plausible excuse! I'm not trying to discredit everything he is saying because stuff like that is painful but I do think @ the moment he is looking for sympathy rather than facing up to his actions!

I tried to control my gambling for years & as I got closer to admitting that maybe, I (Wonder Woman), did have a problem, I started reducing cash limits on my cards & self excluding! Initially I signed up for 6 months, I just needed a break to sort myself out, I didn't want to quit forever! I am banned from loads of places in a very large radius from home (it was not only costing me to gamble but I also had to fork out money to get there) & when I realised that my exclusion was finally up on one of my local haunts whilst out shopping one day (I popped in to ask), I was delighted! I needed a bit of extra cash & I spent the 1st half an hour or so having a whale of a time on the 10p machines with my £20...See I could do it! But then the money ran out & I wasn't any better off than I started so after a bit of deliberating I drew real money out & jumped onto the £1 ones, not stopping until I couldn't draw another penny. This time when I asked for the self exclusion form, I asked to be excluded forever & went looking for help!

I think your decision regarding the bookies was spot on! I had some brilliant plans once I'd asked my now hubby for help & much to my disgust, he poo poohed every single one of them, including the couple of quid that we used to play the 2p machine with when we went away together! If I ever hear the phrase "No, I don't think that's a good idea!" again I'll be incredibly disappointed in myself!

Against all the rules, I continue to play the lottery because it was only ever a few quid here & to my mind really wasn't a problem! It doesn't consume me but the urges I have had in recovery are largely lottery related because I left that door to gambling open! Daily limits are not the solution, he needs to face up to the fact that as CG's we cannot win because we cannot stop.

You are going to be grieving, he's let you down & not only that, he is manipulating you into thinking it is somehow your fault! That way, he doesn't have to accept responsibility for his actions & can justify carrying on! Heavens forbid you making all the grown up decisions...No disrespect to men out there who do make them but most men I know are more than happy to have their partners do the thinking/planning (in our house, that's more PlayStation time)! He's known for years he has been doing this behind your back, not speaking to you all those sad times that he is bringing up now (he may as well have been turning to a stranger for affection that you would have freely given) & has been caught out (not come clean) twice! You've been hoodwinked all along & it's going to take you some time & effort to come to terms with, if you ever do! You have to take care of yourself, get support from anywhere you can & if all you have left is scraps, then that is all he can have until you are stronger! I wish I could be more positive but from what you have written, he is absolutely in denial & you have some serious decisions to make as to what you are prepared to put up with!

Look after yourself - ODAAT

Deep breath girl, go peek @ your babies until they make you smile! I guess this is hurting you like crazy but you have to say & do what feels right...If he is serious about recovery, he may not like it but he will understand!

Hi, Something

We're all unique but the addiction's the same!!! It leads to the same behaviour. I read your post in response to my last one and he's really got you blaming yourself! He's trying so hard to provide for you but his best efforts aren't good enough for you so he just has to gamble. Of course he's going to resent you if he's depressed because... well, why, exactly?

I had a few of these deep discussions with my husband first time round and they didn't end well. On one occasion, I was all set to go to GamAnon, he wanted to know where I was going...and I never got there! If ifs and ands were pots and pans. Instead, we had a deep discussion, at the end of which I fully understood that what I thought was gambling was indeed investment (from which he would in future refrain if I insisted), that he needed to invest because of my extravagance and my disinclination to return to work after the birth of our youngest. He'd been telling me for ages that I needed to go back to work but I wouldn't take him seriously so what else could he do? Oh, dear! Actually, aaaaarghhh!

It's manipulation, pure and simple. I find that if you're sitting there thinking, "Huh????" in response to something he's telling you, consider manipulation as a probability. More seriously, be very wary of trying to have a serious and logical conversation with an addict in denial. Their thought processes are corrupted by the inevitable stinking thinking and you end up lost in a fog of manipulation. If you try to reason with someone with serious mental health problems, the illogical thinking is easier to spot. With an addict in denial, it's much more subtle and it's harder to avoid being taken in.

re marching out with a suitcase, my husband did that first time round, when I told him he needed help. He said he was going, we'd never see him again and made sure that the children understood that he had no choice because of me. I panicked and got one of his friends to talk to him as he left. The friend had only the best of intentions but he was as clueless as I was and it just made things worse. My husband (who had nowhere to go) didn't even get as far as the car and was "persuaded" to come back in and try again. The friend fell for the investment line but it was "agreed" that the investment would stop. I later unpacked the suitcase and discovered that it was empty. I should have just left nature to take its course but that needs strength and support.

I can take a harder line now because of what went before, but I handed things badly first time round. If anyone else can avoid jumping off the same cliff, so much the better.

Take care,

CW