Hello everyone,
Just looking for some support really. Will tell you the back story now. Basically, my brother has just turned 25 and is homeless. My mom sold her house and she has somewhere to live (a bungalow), she has told him even before she put the house up for sale that he needs to find somewhere to live. He never did and is now homeless so is temporarily staying with me. The thing is, every time he gets paid, he goes straight to the bookies thinking he can double it, and then loses it all. He tells me he is chasing the high. When he wins, its amazing and when he loses he's fudged because thats his wages gone and his got nothing to live on for the rest of the month. He is in so much debt. He has taken out pay day loans to either survive for the month or put in the bookies, borrowed off friends and family and hardly ever pays them back or just steals. He took mom's bank card saying he was going to borrow £30 and then cleared her account but tried to cover his tracks by taking out another pay day loan.
I told him when he first came to stay with me that he has 2 weeks and then his gone. He was getting paid at the end of the month and was going to use some of that and with the help of my mom money for a deposit to private rent. Pay day arrives and at 9am he's sitting in w**********l on the roulette machines. I know this because we followed him. My mom said she wasnt gonna help him with money if he's in the bookies and because he was in there, his still homeless. He came back to mine and I asked him how much he lost. He said he never went. I said your a liar because I seen you in there. He stood there, in my house, lying to my face! In the end he admitted to losing most of his wages, including the money he owed out. On the Saturday I kicked him out and I felt awful all day but mom was like "he's got nowhere to go" so I took him back with a few conditions.
I wrote out a contract saying that I'm going to basically take over his finances. I have his bank card and I'v told him that I'm not going to keep it in the house so no matter how much he kicks off - he isnt having it. He has a budget of £5 a day and thats only if I dont have enough food in for his lunch for work. I told him he has to call a councillor up on Tuesday and go to regular sessions and when he gets paid do hypnotherapy. I have a friend who was blowing thousands - he did one session and it worked. I also got him to write down his outgoings and i'll make sure they all get paid, and when he goes to fill up his tank, i'll be there to pay for it. So he has zero responsibility when it comes to money. He agreed and signed it. I also made him aware that if he breaks any of this then his on his own. I can only help him if he helps himself.
Today (30/05) I asked him if he wants to give up gambling. He said he doesnt want to give up gambling, just wants to know when his limit is so he can stop. Why am I even bothering? When he doesnt even think he's addicted (his own words) despite the fact that its the first place to go when he gets paid, any spare cash he gets, he goes there and has cleared his own mom's account to chase the high!
I dont know what to do. I'm a single parent with 2 kids, one with autism, one suspected. My mom is soft as and now she has her own place, im pretty much left to deal with everything as he's now staying with me. He cant afford to private rent because he throws all his money in the bookies and the council wont give him somewhere to live as he's not vulnerable in their eyes as he works full time.
He also has a daughter that he doesnt see, the mom stopped him because he didnt want to be with her (pregnant from a one night thing) and he says he cant afford to go to court yet is quite happy to put hundreds of pounds into the machines each month?!
Any advice or support would be much appreciated. I dont know what to do now he's told me he doesnt think he's addicted and only wants to know what his limit is. I cant help someone who doesnt think there is anything wrong with it, despite the fact that he has nowhere to live. He cant live with me forever!
I'm so stressed out I dont know what to do.
Thanks in advance.
Hi, Strawberry,
Sorry to hear of your situation. There's a lot of advice and info on the forum, recommend reading as much as possible.
The short advice? Follow your mother's example. Sounds shocking and it is but there are sound reasons behind it.
Presumably she is practicing tough love but whatever her motives, she understands that being a safety net for your brother enables the gambling. He is an addict, he has a powerful urge to use, to gamble and he's not in control. He can't stop just like that, it isn't possible for him to. No matter what he says or promises. For him to stop is like an alcoholic giving up the drink, it needs a huge amount of dedicated effort and support and it's painful and difficult. The long term rewards are there but that's of no interest when his mind is filled with the craving for the next bet.
Your brother can choose between gambling and recovery but no one else can make that choice for him. But why would he choose to give up gambling when you are supporting him? He doesn't need to. He has a bed and food that you're providing, so he's all good, he can do his wages in the bookies. It's only when the pain of recovery is still better than the alternative of gambling (rock bottom) that he would even try. And if his family bail out, cover up, provide money or even just essentials, it protects him from the consequences and prolongs the agony.
You're not his lifeline. He may tell you that so that you will continue to support the gambling. But the best love is tough.
Focus on you and meeting your own needs, rather than letting him drag you down. Call GC, try GamAnon meetings, tell friends, so that you have real life help, for you, to cope with the situation that you are in.
Look after you.
CW
Hi Strawberry Special
Im the mum of a son who is a compulsive gambler and is about to turn 21 very soon.
My son is behaving exactly the same as your brother, his behaviour became so out of control he no longer lives with us, he didnt go willingingly and we had to get the police involved. It was not a choice, we had no other options we'd tried everything for years and nothing had worked. Ive recently found out hes living very close by and Im told by a third party he wants nothing to do with us which is just as well as we told him we couldnt see him again unless he was in recovery and could prove it. Telling him to leave was the hardest thing Ive ever had to do but it was very necessary.
This is a horrendous situation to be in and I wish I could tell you how to help your brother but the simple answer is you cant - Im sorry. Your brother is very much in denial and he has no desire to stop gambling and his behaviour is going to get worse, compulsive gambling is very progressive. A cg in denial has no morals, no conscience and will lie to your face, they will do what ever they need to do to have their next bet. Its common to amass a lot of debt like your brother and my son, and will steal from us if necessary and wont think twice about it. My son too has had a period of being homeless too ( I suspect he will again fairly soon ) and it hasn't been enough to for him to want recovery Gambling comes before anyone and everything.
The only person who can help a cg is themselves they have to feel the consequences of their actions for them to want recovery badly enough. Taking financial control as you have can work for a cg in recovery but not one in denial, as your brother says as soon as he gets the chance he'll be back gambling. Im certain he wont be relying on you to give him money, he'll be finding it some other way, never understimate how calculating and devious they can get, never trust a word they say without concrete proof.
It took me years to accept that I have to leave my son alone to sort this for himself, if we try to help by paying bills, debts or buy food, give them somewhere to live etc it just frees up any money they have to gamble, they have no desire to stop if we keep protecting them.
My son is very young and my instinct is still telling me to help him but he's an adult all the same and makes his own desicions just the same as your brother, it doesn't matter that they're really bad choices they're his not ours. Its very painful for us to have sit back and watch while they seem to unravel in front of us but for their sake and ours, we have to take that step back.
Be aware that if he thinks he might lose the roof over his head he's probably going to tell you what he thinks you want to hear to get him of your back, delaying tactics you might say. If you issue ultimatums you must be prepared to carry them through if you dont he wont believe you next time. My son stole from us several times, each time he promised never to do it again and of course he did, we threatend him and would tell him to leave, he'd beg forgiveness, Id get upset and tell him to come home, and the whole madness started all over again. It was obvious he didnt believe us so we told him if he stole again we had to be prepared to carry through with our ultiamatum, two days later he stole some cash, not a lot and it was well hidden but he he did steal it and we had to tell him to leave. Its called tough love for a reason.
This has to be about you and your childrens wellbeing, and you have to protect yourself from his destructive behaviour. Make your finances bullet proof hide any cash, cards, and valuables. The worst part is the emotional strain and Id advise you get some support, calling Gamcare would be the first place to start they can give you practial advice and arrange counselling which is free and has been a huge help to me.
Your mum is going to be having a really hard time, so please understand that she is doing the right thing by your brother and herself.
Take care x
Thanks for all your comments. He is currently at work and has called me just asking me to go the shop and get him 20 cigs. He doesnt have any money so he just assumed that I'd buy him some. I said no and he hung up. Now I'm thinking about what you have all wrote. Yesterday he agreed to councelling, hypnotherapy, giving me his bank card etc and today he's telling me he's not an addict and he does it cuz he likes it, he just needs to learn when to stop... So im thinking, Did you say all that yesterday to get me off your back?! So you have somewhere to live?! I feel like my mom has moved out, got herself a little bungalow and just palmed the problem on to me. I'm stressed out.
Hi Strawberry
Your spot on your brother is telling you what you want to hear, or lip service as it gets called, he'll agree to practically anything to get you off his back.
He's presuming you'll get his cigs, they develop an arrogance about them, and when you say no he has a strop, and is hoping that if he gives you enough grief you'll give in and get them. If you give in he'll expect it every time and will expect more and more from you, and I promsie you're no better thought of for giving him what he wants. Let him have his strop say no and walk away, saying no gets easier the more you do it , take no notice of any thing rotten he might say, try really hard not to react, its what hes wanting. Every time you get caught up in stupid arguments it takes the emphasis away from the gambling and hes **** scared you talk about his addiction.
You are giving him somewhere comfy to live with food, no responsibilites and now hes demadning cigarettes, he has no reason to want to change. Its a form of enabling, thats not a criticism, I did it for years, many of us friends and family do we think we're helping, its not we're just making gambling easier for them.
I can understand why think your mum has palmed your brother off on you but Im going to have to disagree, you could of said no. Im sorry if I sound harsh but I guarantee for your mum to walk away from her son is incredibly painful, I know just how she must be feeling, shes doing the right thing for herself and your brother.
Your brother is not your repsonsibility and you cannot help him the only person who can do that his himself and so far he doesn't want to. Again this must be about taking care of you and your children and how much of his behaviour you can tolerate. Please dont take your frustation out on your mum, shes having a far harder time than you know, it can easily separate families if you're not careful. Take a step back concentrate on your own life and leave your brother alone.
Take carex
Sure, the buck has been passed but it doesn't follow that you have to accept it.
CW
Half-Life wrote:
Hi Strawberry
Agree with Phoenix. CG's are adept at manipulation and they'll say anything, agree to anything they think will get you (us) off their backs. They may even mean it as they say it but you can guarantee it all goes out of the window when a bet's in the offing.
Well done for refusing to sub his cigs although you will now need to be prepared for the mood swings and anger that go with the addiction being thwarted.
Also agree that your mum kicking him out doesn't automatically make him your problem. You've offered him a home for a couple of weeks. Has he done anything in the way of looking for his next move while he's been with you? If not it very much looks as though he's looking for the next soft touch he can sponge off. No need whatsoever for that to be you.
He's got no money to go anywhere as he lost it all in the bookies. His so called friends wont put him up and family who have all said how disgustingly mean we are for originally kicking him out wont put him up either (even though they have the room). He doesnt contribute (because he doesnt have any money), he knows he has to pull his weight but he's on nights all week this week now (2pm - 10pm) and he needs to sort out insurance for his car, counselling and he's got something about a flat share on Saturday.
Strawberry, his so called friends don't want him sponging off them. Why would they? And if the family who are critical also let him sponge, then the cycle continues.
Tough love would never be criticised by anyone who knows what's involved - they understand that it's tough all round.
The problem isn't everyone else. Responsibilty for the problem lies with your brother, not everyone else. He'll find the help he needs in GA but he has to go in and accept it. No one else can do that but for him. And long term, it doesn't help to do for him what he should do for himself.
Focus on you.
CW
Just reread thread - also no criticism intended when advising you not to enable or bail out. We have all done it, my experience was that his gratitude towards me lasted five minutes.
Also, don't lose sight of cause and effect. Your brother risks homelessness because he hasn't sorted a flat, because he's gambled his money. Not because of anyone's refusal to keep bailing out.
Take care of you.
CW
Hi Strawberry
There is a real sense that this just isn't fair, what gives someone the right to feel they can pass judgement on us, on something they know nothing about. I wonder how those same people would feel if they had our lives for a little while, not so virtuous then Id say. As has already been said a cg can be very manipulative, who knows what to story your brother has given these people, he will definetly be using the poor me card, my mum and sister are picking on me. We've been told what bad parents we are, several times , one man shouted at me in the street told everyone who cared to listen what he thought of us and hes supposed to be friend.
It doesn't matter what these people think, its their opinion it doesn't mean its correct its just an opinion they've formed with the limited information they been given by a cg, who as we know are the best manipulators. Anyone who really matters to you wont judge you, the rest just tell them to get lost.
You're worrying about things your brother has to do, car insurance, counselling etc, Im sorry to sound harsh but why do you have to be concerned wether he does these things. I did exactly the same, spent so much time worrying what he was or wasn't doing, I didn't see how wrapped up in his life Id became I forgot to have a life of my own.
You really need to take a step back, let him sort all of these things for himself, wether he does them or not thats up to him. You have your own life, you have children who need their mum, and trying to manage your brothers life isnt good, I know Ive been there.
My son said we'd made him homeless, I used to believe that until it was pointed out to me no we haven't hes had plenty of time to arrange somewhere to live but he chose to spend his money gambling instrad of paying rent, and its exactly the same for your brother. You cannot save him from himself.
Take care
Because of all his payday loans they were mounting upto more than his wages, so he took out a loan to pay them all off and now he just pays that one loan back. Thing is, if he cant pay back the loan, my mom will have to start paying it as she's a guarantor on the loan. (I'v already told her, shes an idiot, but she thought she was doing a good thing helping him out)... he's paying back £400 a month for this one loan. My mom is disabled and is on ESA and DLA so £400 a month is not something she has spare.
Would suggest that your mother sees a Solicitor ASAP. How can someone with her limited income guarantee anything? It depends on the circumstances of her signing the agreement. If she was coerced or she didn't understand or she was misled in any way or even if the correct procedure wasn't followed, there may just be a way out. But she needs to act now. These lenders will enforce what they can.
CW
He said it was a 3k loan pay back 6k over 5 years... I have passed on your comments though and she said she is going to go our local CAB office. He's still here, I still have his bank card and I know his outgoings, or atleast the ones he has told me about. He did try and pull a fast one on me yesterday by saying he owed somebody £100 when in actual it was just £50 - and I have their bank details so I can do it as a bank transfer rather than trusting him with money to pay them. As he clearly cant be trusted with money. He mentioned yesterday about having money and I reminded him that he's not having any. I have your bank card, I have your money. He will have a £5 daily allowance and even thats if I dont have food in for his lunch. I dont know if he thought I wasnt being serious before as he looked at me in shock!
Hi Strawberry
My son had a brief period a while ago where he wanted recovery and part of that was sorting his debts, I called Step Change on his behalf (dont ever do it they have to its part of recovery I made a huge mistake), anyway they were great. At the time my son was only working part time on minimum wage and had less money than your mum, and he owed money to 9 or 10 companies, several were pay day loan type, he owes thousands. It was decided the best thing would be a debt management plan and he was only asked to pay a very small amount each month. They helped with a budget, and bottom of the list was debt repayment , they left my son with more than enough to live on. They contacted all these companies on his behalf, asked them to freeze the interest and told them what my son would be paying back, most agreed and the few that didn't Step Change helped negotiate with them. Ultimately the companies want their money back, not at the the interest rate they would like but any payment is better than none. Your mum is no position to pay back £400 to these people and Im certain Step Change would say the same, if she speaks to them (or you can on her behalf if she tells them to speak to you, just has to say " yes speak to my daughter"). The benefits your mum is on are to help pay for care and the basics in life not debt repayment, I wonder if its even legal what these companies have done, but even if it is I am certain she does not have to pay back £400 a month, it will be far far less than that.
My son never stuck to his plan, and to this day hasnt paid a penny back, letters turn up here every week threatening debt collectors and after more than 18 months none have turned up. Step Change tried very hard to get help him but he didnt want to know. Step Change have been excellent, theres other debt charities too, all good but dont go to a company that charge for their services. CAB are great but when my husband was out of work a few years ago and we needed advice we were told we had to wait 6 weeks just to talk to someone, Id try try the debt charity first.
As for your brother, Id say he either didnt think you were serious or hes faining shock, either way he just wants his money, and £5 a day is still enough to gamble with. My son when desperate would go looking down the back of the sofa, through drawers anywhere he could think of to find pennies, he found them and would go to the bookies with hand full of loose change. He would usually gamble on line but when desperate it was the bookies, its all the same mindset wher ever they choose to gamble.
I really dont want to sound like Im critising and you're trying so hard to help your brother but keeping has bank card is only limiting the damage he can do its not fixing things its obvious he doesnt want to stop gambling. Ive done the same many times but ultimately if they dont want to stop gambling theres nothing we can do about it.
Take care
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