New and in Deep trouble

Hi Jay, I truly feel for you and the emotion you must be going through right now, the good news is that you have come to the right place to sort this out.

I have only been on the site for a week but after reading peoples diarys and advice the penny has finally dropped with me - you will read it throughout the forum but the two main things which are a common thread

1) forget about your losses the money has gone and chasing this will only cause you more pain

2) focus on what really brings you happiness in life - I'm sure you will find this is not money

Your story if losing that £10k is so similar to my experience - 10 months ago I was sat in a casino with £50k profit on the table, did I walk out? We all no the answer and yes I'm surethe pit boss did everything in his power to encourage me to loose it - but that day has now passed and we all need to concentrate on the future.

My advice to you would be to get your immediate finances in order and remove the need for the lies etc... This may be hard has it may lead to opening up to this illness and telling the ones closest but believe me this will help you resolve this situation!

My heart goes out to you, but if it's of any help I was it this situation only last week and I'm now sat at home with my girlfriend loomig forward to a gamble free future!

You can do it pal, I will mail further when I have time

Hi Jay, I truly feel for you and the emotion you must be going through right now, the good news is that you have come to the right place to sort this out.

I have only been on the site for a week but after reading peoples diarys and advice the penny has finally dropped with me - you will read it throughout the forum but the two main things which are a common thread

1) forget about your losses the money has gone and chasing this will only cause you more pain

2) focus on what really brings you happiness in life - I'm sure you will find this is not money

Your story if losing that £10k is so similar to my experience - 10 months ago I was sat in a casino with £50k profit on the table, did I walk out? We all no the answer and yes I'm surethe pit boss did everything in his power to encourage me to loose it - but that day has now passed and we all need to concentrate on the future.

My advice to you would be to get your immediate finances in order and remove the need for the lies etc... This may be hard has it may lead to opening up to this illness and telling the ones closest but believe me this will help you resolve this situation!

My heart goes out to you, but if it's of any help I was it this situation only last week and I'm now sat at home with my girlfriend loomig forward to a gamble free future!

You can do it pal, I will mail further when I have time

Hi Jay

Jay like sooty says I got to say I really feel for you right now, having read that I could only think how hard that must have been for you to type your post on the forum. But you did it. And for that you should be glad, well done. Again Sooty has given you some wonderful advice; open up and tell someone/those close to you, it's the isolation and the fear of someone finding out how bad your gambling is that can cause major problems at times. It can evolve into an entity of its own and assume power over you. Take that power back! Take control and come clean! TAKING CONTROL=THE REAL WINNER=YOU. Give up on trying to recuperate the money it's gone!! The adrenaline rush, the feeling it gives us, is nothing compared to the devastation it leaves behind.

I was gambling for over 20yrs, horses, greyhounds, occasionally online roulette, but on one of those "occasions" years ago with roulette I still managed to lose £10,000 in around 6hrs. It's making my stomach churn now just thinking about it. Afterwards I just crumbled on the floor in a heap for around an hour; I would've stayed there longer, but I'd been gambling through the night, it was now 6.30am and I had to go to work and pretend nothing was wrong. As I say that was years ago and although I gave up for a short time after, I returned. How I wish I never. I could've saved myself so much pain, anguish, guilt, remorse, and of course, money. Don't let it be you Jay!! Take back control from this horrible disease we call gambling. Return to this forum and post your thoughts. Read what others have to say. You will find friendship and unity on this site, everyone wants the same thing for themselves and you.

Draw a line under it Jay, continue to integrate on the forum, ring the counsellors, don't gamble and stay strong. I look forward to seeing your posts. All the best.

Hi Jay,

A powerful story, one which brings back so many bad memories for me. I was close to your level - I lost £120,000 over eight years on FOBT Roulette; there has been nothing like it for getting people seriously addicted and probably won't be again.

You are in bad situation - you crossed the line from being a compulsive gambler to being a borderline criminal; it is something I understand and can relate to but this has to be the breaking point, the final straw; it must end here otherwise there is no way back.

The thing is, you never really had that £7000 profit from your £3000 that you started with. You were never going to pay those bills that you said you would because that £7000 was "stake" - and you can't spend "stake". You may pay one bill and splash out on a nice dinner but you can never, ever spend more than a small portion of it because you feel like you need it to win more. You need that money in reserve because you are convinced, as I was, that you can win more. Even by some miracle that you won that £200,000 back, would you buy a house and a car? Nope, because you would be thinking about "one more go" or how you could make a "profit" on your original £200,000 stake - the minute that happens and you have a disaster trigger as you said (I had so very many and I'm sure it wasn't the first for you), you may be £5000 down and then trying to win that back, then failing, being £10,000 down and trying to get that back before it all goes, which it will for everyone at some point. You and I & everyone on here with an FOBT problem would be exactly the same.

I wouldn't normally recommend this but you must rectify the situation immediately - whatever you have to do to balance the books must be done - I would lie to your Finance Director and say that you lost it, left it on a train or something. Offer to take full responsibility - say you will pay the monies back out of your own salary for ten months at £300 a month. If this works, you can think yourself damned lucky it did and know that it ends here, it has to otherwise you face the possibility of going deeper, damaging your businesses finances irreperably, maybe having a criminal record, no career and no income. If you can somehow rectify this awful situation, then remember the absolute hell that you must be feeling right now if you ever feel tempted to start playing those machines again. Run it over and over in your mind until you are sick of it.

Some people have different interpretations of rock bottom but this is surely, surely yours my friend. Learn from this and never darken the doors of a bookmakers again - what is the point in playing to win "stake", money that you will never spend? I made the same mistakes - I'm not judging. Good luck my friend, I believe in you.

JamesP

Hi Jay,

I am so sorry for your pain but glad you have come here for help. I wholeheartedly agree with all the wise answers you have had. JamesP point about stake money I have read many times and this is so true. We dont win, we just have more money to gamble with and lose. I have used these wise words (thanks James) to many other people on this forum because we are all here for the same reason. I also recommend that you hand over access to any finances to someone else. Dont collect money yourself, it is too tempting, get someone else to do it and if you have a partner then hand over all access to bank cards, cheque books etc and just have a small weekly amount of cash. And go to those bookies and tell them that you plan to quit TODAY and you want them to bar you. It is their loss and your gain. You will be the winner from then on. Every day you beat this **** you are a winner. Dont chase losses just start afresh and stick with this forum. It works, I can vouch for that! 9 days free.

PS: Call me stupid but what is FOBT.

Hi and thanks so much for replies:

Firstly to bring you up to date, I did indeed tell my Finance Director that I had misplaced the cash, and that he must not chase the customer as he had paid me. This customer is a bad payer and as I get commission on that account he was certain that I was covering for him.

I told him that I would pay this out of my salary if necessary, though they'll take it all at once leaving me penniless for next two months.

Just a bit of background about myself. I joined the family textile business in 1995 and grew it from £150,000 to £4m turnover in 15 years. Company now has 58 employees. By now I should be very wealthy and indeed if not for gambling I would be ok. I bought my house for £290,000 in 2002 with a £100,000 mortgage which now stands at £500,000 - only from gambling. I have a wife and 4 kids and besides for all those who bread this forum, no one knows of the deep trouble I am in.

Just to give you an idea of the scale of my issues, I lost £36,000 on spread betting on one game of football. Real Madrid v Barcelona which ended goaless. I made £40,000 on one game of cricket Australia West Indies.

I have bet on everything possible but my biggest single drain of money has been the FOBT which literally squeeze every single penny out of me.

The maddening thing is that if I had collected each time even 20% off my peak I would still be up. As I read somewhere we peck like birds and cr** like elephants and so I have been in positions where I have turned potential huge gains to staggering losses.

And then you have these idiots who barely have 5p in their pockets who stand around with their advice as to which number to put it on, and that they KNEW it'd land in that area etc...

The truth is the whole package absolutely sickens me. I hate the shops, I hate the smug cashiers, I hate the 'knowledgeable' bystanders who pretend to be so devastated that you've lost your money, who forget that yesterday you lost £10k and even if today you've made back a quarter, still expect their tip for 'supporting' you and most of all I hate myself for providing them with this pathetic entertainment.

I haven't been in since Sunday and really appreciate the words of all contributors especially as all being gamblers understand what I am feeling

Thank you once again Sooty108 for your advice as a gambler yourself, you relate so well to my position.

Conrad your words were very welcome, again because you are talking from a position of strength having been there.

James P, I followed your advice and really appreciate you taking the time to do this and especially your bit about stake money. As Gabby27 says putting it on those terms makes us realize that we will never ever win in this industry.

Hour by hour at the moment. I am still in serious intensive care but I guess you can call me CRITICAL BUT STABLE.

Thank you for your kind comments about my reply Jay and glad that you have posted an update.

You must completely disregard all these thoughts about collecting 20% off your peak, being up or down and turning potential gains into losses (easier said than done, I very much appreciate). The part that I replied to mentioning "stake" as you kindly acknowledged very much applies to this - you weren't up or down, those wads of cash that you had on you weren't real; you know that if you had've turned those staggering losses into gains that the effect would have only been very temporary - you would have gone back on them at some point and very likely to have lost some, most or all pretty quickly. Looking back, we all convince ourselves that we wouldn't have done but we do - we all do.

I was the same, going over and over things in my mind, all the times I should have pressed collect and walked away but carried on and lost the lost within minutes. But now I know that it is pointless. If you are gambling, the money you make isn't real - it's sheets of paper that enable you feed an addiction; you can't spend "stake" as I said previously. Money doesn't "feel" real when you gamble - it's like it has a question mark hanging over it - will it be more, or less the next day? When will it all go? I like money now - it took a very long time but I feel comfortable that it will still be there tomorrow; that is a very nice feeling.

Agree completely about the people who stand round watching - I had the same. The thing is, we are great entertainment as you state, better than any reality show - people being thousands up or down in a ridiculously short amount of time. I've seen many machines smashed, people collapse, many walk out sobbing, threaten customers or staff and smash windows; great entertainment. 25 years ago, at least betting shops were friendly, socialable places where you had one race every 20 minutes, your own mug of tea and knew everyone in the shop which would then shut at 5.00.

I'm glad that your Finance Director was ok. You have a great deal to be thankful for in life - if you read the story of "Kanook" on the New Intro Members forum, you can see how your whole life can just collapse around you in a very short space of time whether you are gambling or not - it's a very inspriring story.

You have a wife, four children, a successful business - it may take you a very long time to get your mortgate and other things back on track and it will be painful along the way but you can do it. I agree you are critical - you are hanging right on the precipice by your fingernails and getting in any deeper may cost you everything - it really is time to stop and there will never be a better or more right time in your whole life to stop than right now. Building up the business the way you did must have taken fierce determination and guile so it is within you to do this and you can, you really can.

JamesP

Just now seen on an email that the bank have issued a writ against this customer

My company uses invoice discounting from the bank, so even if my Finance Director is ok, clearly the bank were not.

The customer is obviously going me mental and it'll mean that eventually I pick up the cost of the writ too.

Exactly as you say JamesP, this is going to be still very painful.

Exactly 120 hours since last gamble though

Hi Jay

Well done for your 120 hours. hopefully you have added another 18 to that today.

Please forgive me if I am sounding cruel and disprespectful but has it occured to you that when you were in the Bookies, with all those people standing around, you were definately providing them entertainment and were a spectacle. You were feeding them their buzz as they were playing virtual with YOUR money and it costs them NOTHING. I honestly think that they got a thrill from the losing more than the winning. You were a source of amusement, and you must be strong and have the pride to not allow this to happen ever again.

You have accepted responsibility for losing the £3000 (regardless of your story to the Finance Director) and the writ is the least of your problems, although it highlights the dangerous game that we all play. Gambling escalates. At my lowest point I defrauded my husband and forged his signature on our account and added £80000 to our mortgage, it seemed like easy money at the time, but having come clean to my family the guilt is there that I have squandered some of my childrens inheritance and the shame is terrible, but I have to accept the loss and my husband has been fantastic but still reminds me when things are on a down so it will never go away but what is gone is gone. I cannot look back.

You have a wife and children and a good business. You are a winner in that department. Keep up your strength and keep with your posts. Once again I echo all James P has said. Wise words and wonderful support, as with your other posts. Counting the hours with you Jay, Hopefully they will go up and up, which is more than your gambling balance ever did before you accepted responsibility. All the best.

Thanks Gabby27

Yes can add a further 18 hours. If I make it to Sunday 6PM that will be one week.

Actually the more time I spend on this site reading people's posts and information particularly those in reference to FOBT the more it makes me sick even to think about going back to gambling.

.

You are so right about the bystanders. Nothing made me more angry then the way these 'fans' cheered a win and booed a loss. Or when they predict that this will be the number 32 that you are desperate for and then it lands a million miles away. This is a true mugs game and I was the biggest idiot of all.

But over the last week I have ad no money in my pocket so it as been easy not to gamble, the real test will be when I am in a repeat situation of old and whether I have the strength of character to overcome the addiction. Time will tell but people's amazing support here will definitely play a part

Regards. Jay

Hi Jay

Good to see that you're continuing to post your thoughts and feelings on the forum. You're now one week on well done, and although your situation is far from resolved, I hope that you are at least feeling a little better. As time goes on and the days pass, you will feel better yet, so you should continue to stay clear. Abstinence from gambling is the best thing you can ever do. Like you say, you don't have much money yet, so it's not a full "test" so to speak, but do you need that test at this stage to know you shouldn't gamble? Of course not. It's isolating, it's destructive, and it's something no-one needs. In this period where you've had no money, you've used the moments constructively by coming on this forum and seeking solutions to problems and issues. I believe that once you have money in your hands again, due to the break and seeking help, your mindset will be evolving, changing; the way you look at gambling will be different, and given time, this more positive outlook will solidify. You have the strength within you to resist my friend. Stay strong and focussed you can do it.

Remember, at this stage in our addiction, "Any money we win is stake money; we would never spend it on anything useful". Gambling provides the illusion of the possibility of wealth, but as this website shows, it provides the exact opposite. Poverty. Not to mention guilt, remorse, depression, sadness and the feeling of hopelessness. But all of these things are emotions, feelings, not actually WHO you are; if we take charge of our lives beginning with abstaining from gambling, we can change those feelings into more positive ones. Happiness, joy, bliss, contentment. None of which, incidentally, you require money to feel. Having money can be great, used wisely. Nothing wrong with having lots of it in fact. But it's not a prerequisite to the joyous state.

Just a note with regards to the FOBT's, and online gambling in general. As I mentioned before, years ago I used to play roulette online on occasion, but never really liked it because it just seemed too easy for the industry to fix. I still managed to lose a small fortune though! It was the same for me with the FOBT's. Anyway, I remember reading an article on a online circulation that claimed in Canada in 2009, FOBT's had been removed from a particular place(can't remember exactly where, but could probably find details) due to the use of subliminal messaging in the machines. It didn't surprise me really, as I had long suspected the use of this sort of technology. I have endeavoured to find answers about my gambling over the years and have studied quite a lot about the concious/subconcious mind. It said in the report that the machine would flash the jackpot symbols for a fifth of a second on the screen while it was being played; not long enough to be seen by the eyes/concious mind, but long enough for it to register and "speak" to the subconcious mind; in this case it seems to try to obviously influence the player that a jackpot is near, so continue playing. Based on the knowledge that an action takes place in the subconcious mind before the concious mind, you can see the control this sort of thing would have over the person. I think it's a distinct possibility it could be widespread. I personally believe that this, coupled with the speed in which you can have a bet on the FOBTs(roughly every 20secs?), is a major reason for their ability to keep people coming back for more punishment. Is subliminal messaging online too?? Who knows. All I know is that there have always been problem gamblers no doubt, but now people are suffering in a way that is unheard of. My uncle for instance, for as long as I've been alive and I'm sure longer, has always loved a bet on the horses. He would win occasionally but lose most of the time, and I think everyone can relate to that. However, over the last few years he has been gambling almost exclusively on the FOBTs and his gambling has gone to another level. Whereas before he would sometimes have money, now he NEVER has money. Not only that, his personality has changed. He's become distracted, seems to be hustling more for money now and has been keeping himself more isolated. So you can see, and obviously know, how gambling can mess with us. We should also take into account that the gambling industry has billions of pounds, and are constantly looking at ways to get even more money. In order to do that, they need to know more about how the human mind/psyche works. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out where some of the funding and research must go.

Anyway Jay, I thought I'd just pass on some information, not to use as an excuse for our previous misdemeanours, but just to reinforce the fact, even though I'm sure you knew already, that it's a distinctly uneven playing field. Whether there's more reasons than meets the eye to this situation, the one thing that remains a fact, is that "We can't win because we can't stop". We must stop and regain control of ourselves. Stay strong and focussed Jay, you can do it, we all can. One day at a time. All the best.

Hey Conrad

Firstly thanks so much for your continued support on this forum. As you say I am now one week on (almost to the hour) and do feel a little more positive this time than previously. I have been gambling for 20 years with occasional breaks -I think the longest was about 2 months, but this is the first time I have been able to speak about it, and there is no question that being able to post here is a very positive medicine against this deadly disease.

Right now whilst I definitely feel better I am still deep in trouble, financially, emotionally and spiritually. I have lost over £500,000 to gambling; I have lost well over three years (if I put all my gambling time in one hit) and lost every bit of honesty, self respect and truthfulness in my life. I remember seeing a saying ‘’ If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters’’. That is so true and I am so far away from it. The interesting thing is that my friends think I am really trustworthy and straight forward and nothing could be further from the truth. I am the most crooked person around, constantly ducking and diving and all because of gambling

I cannot believe what you write about the subconscious mind, as aside from gambling this is the one area that completely fascinates me. I have spent hundreds of hours learning about the power of the subconscious - online webinars, books CD’s and am a huge believer in the power of the mind being able to guide direct and shape one’s life.

What you write about the subliminal messages is simply astounding and often whilst playing the machine I have felt my mind reading a win only to miss by a whisker. On the five hundred pounds win games where you need to have 3 wells or rainbows to trigger the jackpot spin I have often seen the set only to miss it a second later.

It makes a lot of sense that scientist and mind specialists will be used to get into our brains and boy have they won.

I don’t trust myself at all to have overcome this but day by day I hope to get stronger.

Thanks and best regards

JAY

I can relate to what you say.

Firstly when you say about the bystanders. I agree completely. I mean if im in a pub and put £50 or even a lot more into a fruit machine, then cashout £70, when I go to cash it in people at the bar are like "nice work", when in all fairness they have no idea That I lost more that day than I put in or Had a massive loss the day before of 10x the amount I won that day.

Im the same with the psychological stuff.

If playing I think "after this next bonus round I quit" then because the bonus round didnt pay much I think "Well the next 1 will pay more and I will be sorted", then by time it comes round I would of put in more than the bonus round pays.

Hi Blownlife

You are spot on. People stand around and whisper to each other "this is guy is so lucky" which infuriates me even more....lucky! I want to shout out that I am the worlds biggest loser, just because I am up here (a) I lost triple that yesterday (b) every bit of this will be gone before you even get home

Also I sit here now trying to work out where I get £500 to pay urgent bills tomorrow and yet when I am under the influence, under the spell, in the shop and was up £2000 and now down to £1000 I think it isn't worth keeping and blow the lot.

Gambling puts me into a surreal, make believe world, a world that I really hope I'll never return to.