My name is Brenda from the USA. I am 44 years old. My fiance has a real gambling problem. He has not yet reached the point where he is thousands in debt, but he only recently started making enough money to make that even possible. I helped him build his credit over the past 7 years and now he's opening loans and using CCs to charge lottery and other gambling, or to pay for living expenses to free up cash for gambling. He says that I am sick. He says that I am controlling. He tells me that I need to figure out how to make myself happy and not depend on him for my own happiness. He tells me that I need Alanon, yet refuses to get any treatment for himself. He acknowledges that he is an addict, yet defends it because it makes him happy. I have family members who have struggled with addictions to drugs & alcohol and I am familiar with the downward spiral that he is on. He is 13 years younger than me, so it's difficult for him to understand the guidence I try to give him. Much of it comes from life experience that he hasn't had yet. I am lost. I am broken. I am desperate to find my happiness again. But I love him and want to support him and help him to find recovery. He is such a good man, beneath the demon of his addiction. I hate to lose him to this. But my hands are tied and I have no idea how to help him. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
bluescreen,
Thank you so much for your response. I appreciate you taking the time to reply. The funny thing is, I've worked in mental health for 20 years. I am educated on many different mental illnesses, including addiction. I don't really know why I even question myself. I guess my love for him clouds my judgement as well. I've allowed him to make me doubt what I already know is true about what he's doing and about the ways that I've enabled him to be so sick. I know that I've carried him, made excuses, and even bailed him out many times over the last 7 1/2 years, all in the name of "love" and "partnership". But I'm realizing that what would be support and love in a healthy relationship, is actually manipulation and tools for keeping his addiction satisfied in this relationship. I don't want to feed that monster anymore, and thanks to the many posts that support my truths and reinforce what I already knew to be facts, I have found some strength again. I had that hard conversation with him. I told him how sorry I was that he is sick and how very much I love him and want him well. But I also acknowledged to him out loud that he is manipulative, lying, and deceitful and that I will be taking all of the steps to find my own happiness. I will be working on my life and my happiness. I will be strengthening my foundation for when his crumbles. I have all of my finances split from him already. Thankfully, we don't own anything together. (lesson I learned in my divorce years ago) So, the real struggle is my heart. So much of me is wrapped up in him. He is AMAZING under that **** addiction. He has loved me like no other. I know he loves me, but I feel like his gambling is "the other woman". I'm tired of trying to compete and prove I'm worth more than "her". This is going to be hard, no question about it. But I am prepared to fight for me. I can't fight for us until he joins the fight. I'm not ready to let go and walk away, but even in this short time of trying to refocus, I see that he isn't. That effects me deeply and pushes me to continue to work toward an independant, strong, happy me. Even if it means without him. Wow! That really hurts to think about! Sorry for rambling. I get lost in the pain, plans, struggles. Have a blessed day and thank you again for sharing. If I may ask, are you a family/friend of an addict, or have you/do you struggle with the addiction?
Thank you, thank you, thank you for your honesty! I was actually hopeful that my assumption that you were in recovery was correct! I needed you to be straight with me about where you were/he is. I just felt like I was reading his story, written by someone else! It's rather scary how textbook so much of what I've experienced is. But it's kind of a relief to know that what I thought was unique isn't. What I felt so alone in dealing with is something that many others are feeling and dealing with. What you share also gives me hope! And man, do I need a little hope right now! I commend you for fighting for your recovery. I'm sorry that you were so sick that you lost so much before you were able to find the strength to face your truths and fight. I want to tell you not to feel guilty for those of us who are living with an addict, but the truth is, it's probably good for your recovery to feel that. Hopefully it will help to keep you focused on the NEW AND BEAUTIFUL YOU! Reinforcing that what you've done can not ever be repeated. You're words of experience and blunt truths are so very helpful to me and I ask that you continue to share your side with others like me. It brings me comfort to know that I have others who can relate to my pain as friends/family, but it brings me clarity and a better understanding of the person that I love and his struggles. Knowing the manipulations are exactly what I assumed they were really empowers me in how I see his approach to "us". Many of those things that I saw as "awww...he feels bad, he's really sorry, he's working on him and I'm making it impossible because I am so needy, and maybe just a little gambling isn't so bad" are actually manipulations that I've opened myself up to and embraced. It's time to pull back his mask and see who really hides behind it. Unfortunately, with every layer that I peel back, I find more of him that I don't like. That's so sad to me. How in the world can someone as observant and experienced as me not see all of this in him all along?! Why on Earth would I ever allow that to happen in my world?! I know better! I see it so clearly in the rest of the world, just not in my own home. That reality BITES! Better late than never though, right?! But now the truth is that I may be building toward the finale. That's a painful thought! My heart aches to think that he may always be this way and I may find myself alone and without him one day. That is a pain deeper than most. It feels like I've begun the long good-bye. All I want is for him to surrender to recovery. All I want is for him to beat that demon off of his back and battle back to me. I want him to be whole again. I want us to be whole. I want to look back on this as the time in our lives that we faced a huge fork in the road, but decided to take the high road together and live happily ever after. Much of what I've read and learned here leads me to believe that I am fantasizing and the reality is a very ugly one.
Thank you so much, and please feel free to write as much as you like! I love to learn - and you're a great read! You should consider putting your experiences and advice in a paperback! I see a best seller in your future!
Have a great day and thanks again!
There again, is my conundrum. How do I remove myself from the stress, anxiety, and anger and not be a part of his disease without leaving him? How do I stay firmly in the know, and not concern myself with what he's doing to himself? How do I work on my happiness and strengthen myself while continuing to dig deeper and hold him accountable for those things that I already know are happening? It feels like my only option is to leave him. That the only real option left for me to get him to seek help or me to a happy place eventually, is to leave. Is there no way to stay and support him and pray that he figures it out in the meantime? Am I ignorant to believe that there is hope for us too? Ughh.....so much ugliness. So much loss in all of those questions. I struggle with even hitting the save button, for fear of what answers may come. It's clear that this is all going to get way more painful before it gets any better. Whether I stay or go, that is for sure to happen. How do you stay focused blue? How did you find success in your recovery? What worked in getting you to that point? Is there a magic formula that I need to learn? If so will you share the recipe! haha! Have a great day! I was glad to see you had posted again. I appreciate you!
At the moment, it seems that everything is about him or more precisely, about what you think he needs. If you move your focus away from him and over to you, (where it belongs) then your answers will become clearer to you. Less of what he needs and more of what you need. Ask yourself what you need from a lifetime partner. Someone to fix? You have that. Someone to have an equal life partnership with? Someone trustworthy who values and respects you as you value and respect him, someone who has similar values to you, someone who has your back as you have his, someone humanly imperfect but not inhumanly perfect? Do you have what you want in your life and in your relationship and if not, what are you going to do to achieve your own goals and dreams?
CW
cw
Ughhh....just as I thought. Much of your response leaves me with only one conclusion. ****! ****! ****! Thank you for your response. I have never been good at the whole "think about your own happiness" thing. I've only ever taken care of those around me. In my personal and my professional life. I don't even know if there is something esle that makes me happy. I always base my happiness on being selfless and doing for others, helping them to be the best them that they can be. I take pride in my selflessness, but now everyone is telling me that the only way to find happiness in my relationship is to learn how to be more about self, which feels selfish to me. Only because I don't understand that reality. Am I a gluton for punishment or have I become blindly codependant?! I can't see my life without him in it when I picture my future. Yet I can't see us being any more than we are right now if he doesn't stop the maddness and get help. I want to tell him that I need him to choose me or his addiction and that I will support him as he works through recovery, but that I will not allow him in my life if he doesn't. But I'm scared to death that he either doesn't love me enough to fight, or he loves his addiction more and I will essentially be saying goodbye to him. I think I would die (not literally) if he left and stayed gone over gambling. My soul is torn!
I am the mom of a compulsive gambler. He has been owned by this addiction for 11 years. Unfortunately I can tell you from experience you are never going to shame, bully, scare or love an addict into recovery. As CW & Bluescreen have said you need to start living your life for you and not as a manipulative tool to get your desired result... him to say o*g you've been right all along I have to stop this... It ain't gonna happen!
He has the best shot of living his best life when you start living yours.
Get support for yourself as we quickly become just as sick as the addict we live with.
Cathyx
You don't have to leave. You have to change. Change reaction, stop helping. Tell him in a happy healthy relationship gambling is not acceptable. Find a gamanon meeting, work the steps. Be honest, what do you want? If you want him you have to find a way to get strong and set limits. I've never walked away, I've learnt to accept that the only person I can change is me. I'm married to a compulsive gambler so I found out what that means for me, what that entails. It's not easy but you have to face why you're attracted to someone like that and what is acceptable to you.
Thanks Blue, Amom, and Merry go round. Blue - I expected you to share that formula with me. *****! haha. I know this isn't my battle to fight or win. I spent the last week trying to not concern myself with whether or not he was gambling, as long as he was paying me his share of the expenses and bills. But, something in me told me that the whole conversation that I had with him: where I told him I was gonna shift my focus onto myself and my own healing and strengthening and preparation for his ultimate failure, was interpreted wrong. Something told me that he had decided that I meant he could do whatever the **** he wanted and I was not going to be in his business anymore (FREE PASS). So last night I asked how he's been doing. To which he replied, I didn't gamble yesterday. I said: well on Monday you told me you would make an effort to not gamble everyday. So were you successful or is this your way of telling me you only didn't gamble yesterday (because the money is gone)? He started on the whole merry go round of twisted truths about what had happened, so I called that to him and asked him to show me his bank account to prove his words. When he opened it, he looked like he was shocked to find out that his truths were lies, even to himself! He had gambled away about $200 US of the $500 US of his weekly pay and around $200 US of his savings (savings being the $500 remaining of the $1000 LOAN he just took out last week). I was not surprised, as I knew what was happening behind the scenes. I know him. But I needed him to be accountable. I told him that he needs to be accountable for what he's doing with his finances. He kept referring back to the self-help book he got at the library that he hasn't really gotten into yet. That he is going to dig into it and I need to give him time. But just as I said, I know him. I know that book on the end table is another manipulation tool. I feel like he wants to stop for me, but has no desire to stop for him. I think he only tries to get control because everyone around him gives him grief about it. But in his "perfect world" he would never stop! Do I get excited and wait for these baby steps (self-help book and admitting he's sick) and pray he eventually realizes or do I see them as I have, as manipulations? Can you guys tell me what "turning the focus on myself" looks like? I've never done that. I don't know what that means (not joking). Can you tell me what it looks like for me to be focused on me and in a relationship with an active addict? Can you tell me what happiness looks like in that situation? I have no idea what I'm working for or trying to change to. Thank you all for your support. It means so much! ps. Blue, I think I read the thread you spoke of in your last post. That battle was brutal. Is brutal. So sad.
You know that he is not in recovery. He is in addict mode, deflect, deflect, deflect. Anything to bring chaos to the situation.
Recovery for you is not giving him a chance to spew his BS while you try to catch him up in another lie... that is just a game that you are both playing. I don't mean this at all disrespectfully (cuz we've all done it) but what are you getting out of this? Why do you play the games? Are you addicted to the chaos?
That is what turning the focus on yourself means. We have to ask ourselves the hard questions and be willing to do the hard work to change. There are all sorts of groups you can attend... Gam Anon, Al Anon and I know CW also speaks highly of a codependant group.
When we are no longer able to change a situation we are challenged to change ourselves. Victor Frankl.
Take care of yourself Brenda.
Cathyx
Are you the one holding the fort financially? If you're bailing him out and/or covering his unpaid share of the bills he has no incentive to change. If you're not acting as his safety net, your finances are secure against his access and he's meeting his share of the household expenses trying to make him accountable for what he's spent gambling when he doesn't want to give up is a waste of energy and may even drive the existing deceit further underground.
Living with an active gambler involves endless chaos and drama if you let it. If your finances are secure you have a bit of breathing space to disengage and decide how you want to live and where your lines in the sand are. Once you've done that you can lay them out to him without discussion or compromise. Engaging with the madness blurs your focus and gives him the chance to manipulate you into tolerating intolerable behaviour.
Thanks all. Lethe I feel like what you've said is going to be the least painful approach. I must admit that I've always "had his back" when it came to his short comings financially. I have kept my finances separate and he is paying me the rent he is responsible for. I have, in the past allowed him to skip paying for our weekly "date night" even though, for me that night is very important to our relationship and I consider it part of his contribution to our home. On the day that I became a member of this site, I did have the conversation with him about not bailing him out anymore. He actually tried to skimp on date night funds last Saturday and I held my ground. I won't be covering for him anymore with family and friends. If he doesn't have any money to do something that comes up unexpected, then he just won't be doing it. I won't make excuses or give the loans that I've always been good for. He always pays me back, but the truth is, I'm just extending his gambling abilities for another week by loaning him a get out of jail free card everytime he's in a pinch. I've also decided to be honest with our family members about it. No more keeping his secrets. They all know he has a problem. However, they have no idea how bad it actually has become. I'm not sugar coating anymore. I won't let him feed me bs anymore. When he's being manipulative, I'm calling him on it. When he lies, I'm calling him on it. Not in a mean or aggressive way, but just so that he knows I know what he's doing and won't tollerate it anymore. I won't ignore that he's gambling. I won't NOT ask him if he's gambling. I feel like he needs to own it. I feel like he needs to be accountable, otherwise he can just waller in his secrets. I won't fight anymore though. I'm done fighting over it. I'm simply going to state facts and leave it there. I find that since I've started just stating facts and asking questions that require proof and accountability, he's become quite aggitated and defensive. I won't let him get me fired up anymore or twist it around to my fault for nagging. No more! Until he is ready to get help, which I will ask from time to time, I will remain steadfast in this. I will also reassure him that the "happy" that he feels (and defends) from gambling can be transformed into a health happy that he has never felt before. And I'm gonna pray pray pray!!! I hope that he wakes up and reaches out for help. I want him to work toward recovery so bad. But I'm also aware that this road that I'm on is exhausting!! It's only been a week of holding my line and seeing the addiction clearly (thanks blue for removing the rose colored glasses for me) and I'm already tired. As sad as it sounds, I hope that if this is how he will always be, I eventually grow so tired of it that I am able to walk away from him without the tremendous amount of pain that I know I would feel if I left him now. Does this sound like a good approach, or am I making excuses to stay? I know CW will shoot straight with me, and I'd appreciate all of your honesty, even if it hurts. No need to ever apologize to me for shooting straight with me. I respect that in others. I know that the truth sometimes hurts as I'm a straight shooter. Am I making the right choices/changes or no?
Morning,
It’s interesting that you say how your whole life has been about other people. That’s actually the root and cause of your problems. Somewhere along the line you’ve learnt the wrong lessons, picked up the idea that you don’t really matter and so you’ve become codependent and attracted to the chaos and drama of someone impossible who will be wonderful once you’ve fixed them. Except that as we all find out the hard way, we can’t fix anybody except ourselves. Take away the fantasy of how he and how your relationship would be wonderful if only he didn’t gamble and you’re left with the reality of trying to have relationship with a gambler who is in reality is impossible. And you’ve lost yourself along the way, you don’t know or have to think about who you are, what you think, what you value, what you want and need, what your goals are, all of this goes out of the window whilst you focus on how to fix Mr Impossible and everyone else around you.
It’s not about if you stay or if you go. It’s about you facing the pain of looking at you because if you don’t, the next man will be worse. And each one after that. Healthy attracts healthy, a healthy person would regard the intolerable behaviour of an addict as intolerable and wouldn’t be attracted by any notion of saving or changing him.
Start a GamAnon program (and AlAnon if he drinks) and also look at issues of codependency. The book that helped me was Robin Norwood, “Women who love too much”, also Pia Mellody’s “Facing Love Addiction” .
Above all, protect yourself financially then focus on you without being distracted by him.
CW
I would add that my personal point of view is that I wouldn't maintain or even consider a relationship with someone who gambled even for fun if they showed no interest in stopping. That's my line in the sand if you like. Mr L is in no doubt that if he ever crosses it again I will walk.I can't and won't live that life ever again. Focusing on you and how you want your life to be is the key thing here.
Compulsive gamblers are compulsive liars, no point asking they only lie. What difference does it make, you'll never hear the truth. Concentrating on you means stop thinking about him and what he's doing. The least painful way is not living with an active gambler. No point waiting if you are continuing to endure the chaos. The pain could get far worse. I totally agree with Lethe and CW, if you don't deal with this the next man will be worse. As I said to my husband 'you're not the first gambler I had a relationship with'! As a young woman I had no idea.
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