Maybe a little light at the end of the tunnel.

Hi as67

You are not being too harsh. He has yet to prove to you that he is sincere in trying to change his ways, let alone succeed. It is extrememly important that you understand that everytime you bail him out of a financial difficulty, you are actually enabling his gambling.

When you write that the UNI have suspended him until october, are you saying that he will not attend classes until october? If that is the case, why can't he try and get a job somewhere to pay for his rent etc? At sometime he will have to grow up and accept the responsibility for his actions, and now would seem as good a time as any.

He would definitely have to prove that he is sincere with his attempt to reform before I would offer to help. If he does attend counselling and/or GA, he would understand very early on that he has been an utter mongrel, and should of his own will, apologise for what he has said and done. Maybe then would be the time to offer your support. Again, I doubt I would offer any financial support, just moral support and love from his mum and dad.

They call it tough love for a reason. It's tough on you, and it's tough on him. Stay strong.

Best wishes

Thanks wal1957. Yes he wont be able to attend classes until October, I think hes got off lightly with them hes really messed them around, and they have told him that. He has a part time job but its not enough to cover the rent, and Ive told him to ask them for as many shifts as possible to pay for it, and he hasnt replied so its not what he wanted to hear. We will not be giving him any money and are not in the position to do so any way, were are on a limited income, and he knows that but doesnt stop him,. We will continue to use tough love its just incredibly hard when hes got a knack for making me feel like the worst mother in the world, he tells me often enough. I didnt think I was angry any more but I am, partially at myself for letting myself waiver a little in my detemination and his attitude towards us stinks as usual. We have had a couple of people who have judged us and said we havent tried hard enough and that everyone deserves a second chance especially our own son, ( never mind second chance try scores of chances) not that its got anything to do with any one else but I think after one comment I got this morning as well as his manipulation it made me a little less sure of myself. He has never apologised for anything hes said or done and for me I would need to hear sorry before I could begin to take him serioulsy. We have had a week now of peace and quiet, or as my husband calls it " the way normal people live ", it feels a little odd but good, its the way it should be not the unhappy place its been for so long. He knows we love him and have told him many times we will support him while he gets help but not financially. Thanks for reminding me of a few things, my waivering has gone and I'll go back to the peace and quite while he sorts himself out.

wal1957 is right, This is not harsh, it's firm. You're standing up for your marriage, for your realtionship wiht your other son, for your own future happiness, for your health, for so many things that do deserve more chances and will benefit from them.

One of the reasons I recommend gam anon is that so few people actually understand the depths our compulsive gamblers take us to, they empty the bank of every penny but that doesnt matter, it is our emotional resouces being stretched beyond breaking point that does the damage. 'People' out there in normal land, they have no idea of the things i have done to hide my husbands addiction and to protect him from himself. Many people think I lost my driving licence, a select few know that he sold the car and gambled the money and we couldnt replace it, but I was less embarrassed to say I'd lost my licence than i was to announce to the world the extent of what i saw at the time as my foolishness. But in the end i saought advice and learned i was not the fool, that kindness and gentleness are not foolishness, i just had to start investing them in the right places.

It takes time to really let go of the mindset that the gamblers force us in to, it takes time living like normal people before you can get enough distance to look back and really see what we became. Stay on the road you so carefuly and thoughtfully chose, dont be held back by other peoples words, they have not experienced this, so few of us know how tough this road is...and yet so many too.

Thanks Pangolin, wise words as always. Im quite new to the tough love bit and still have a lot to learn but I am determined to carry it out. I know none of its my fault, its his doing but I cant help feeling a bit of a fool some days, how on earth did I fall for what ever excuse it was that day, I believed most of it for a very long time. I see reading on here Im not the only one to feel like that but still makes you feel a bit rubbish. But I know theres no sense in beating myself up for it, Im wiser and gettting tougher each day with the odd wobble of self doubt, talking to you guys brings me back to reality, and the reasurrance we are doing the right things is a huge boost to morale. Like you weve hidden a lot from people, made excuses or even told a fib or two just to save us from embarrasment or feel the need to explain. One thing I was guilty of was that sure enough every birthday or Christmas he wouldnt have the money to buy presents so I would help him out, I couldnt bare the thought that he wouldnt have a present for his dad or brother. Of course now I now that was a big mistake but I thought his dad and brother shouldnt suffer for his gambling and Ive not helped by doing that even though it was well intended. Im not going to broadcast to people about his gambling but I will speak up now, Im not going to hide it any more after all we havent done anything wrong infact I think covering for him has just made the situation worse. He was so scared of anyone finding out yet seemed not to have any shame when it came to how he treated us. I have no idea if hes been to his uni meeting today or not thats up to him, usually I would of asked how it went etc, but not this time, I think he enjoys me running after him, - my husband pointed that out and Im sure hes right. For so long our son has held the upper hand, its all been about him and how is behaviour impacts on us but I sort of feel like Ive got some power (if thats the right word) back for the first time in a very long time. I have no idea what he will or wont do next and thats up to him but its going to be on our terms this time, and it feels so good to say that.

Hi as67

You wrote..."We have had a couple of people who have judged us and said we havent tried hard enough and that everyone deserves a second chance especially our own son"......Absolutely your son deserves a second chance,and a third, but how many chances has he had?

Hold your head up high, you have done all that could be reasonably expected and more. It is very easy for people who have no first hand experience to offer their 'wealth of knowledge' or to criticise. Ignore them. Pangolin is your best friend at the moment. The advice that she gives is from first hand experience. The advice I give is also from first hand experience, except from the gambler's perspective, so Pangolin would know best how you feel, and the emotions that you are feeling.

I have one very simple but hard question for you to think about. When was the last time your son rang you just to see how you are, to say hello, without asking for anything? As CG's we are absorbed totally by the gambling bug. We are very shallow people.

Take care of yourself and the rest of your family. Your gambling son has been pointed in the right direction, the rest is up to him. Life is not a free ride.

Stay strong and take care

Thanks wal1957. I have no idea the last time my son called to ask how I am, its got to be several years at least. A couple of years ago I was quite poorly in hospital , and I remember he came to visit, and I thought how lovely until he opened his mouth to ask for money and left when I said I had none. It saddens me to say but theres a long list of times when hes reacted in a similar way, and that was far from the worst, as Ive said before he can be very cruel. I really do not think he has any care or kind thought for us in any way, if I do manage to get him to look at me its a look of utter contempt. He tells us he feels nothing for us and as much as I dont want to believe him I know its true, I wonder if he ever did love us or at least like us. Since weve had a few days peace and a chance of normal life Im more determind than ever not to go back to how it was, and if / when he gets help its going to take a lot of work on his behalf to fix our realtionship and quite honestly theres a part of me isnt sure I want him to sometimes. Hes my youngest child and I always thought i would do anything for him, I want him to get well but Im weary of it all, exahausted in body and mind, Im scared that one day I just say enough go away and stay away for ever, that must make me sound like the worst mum ever. I like to hear how it is for you it gives me more of an idea what hes thinking, it really does help. Pangolin is a very wise lady, only someone whos gone through it can explain it as well as she can, she and all the other good people on this forum help more than they can ever know. Thanks again for your support.

Hi as67... Now that you are distancing yourselves and saying "no" the ground beneath your son's feet will start shaking. The addict in him gets really P****ed when things don't go their way. Absolutely be encouraged by the "glimmer or hope" but as the others say ... stay the course. Recovery for both your son and yourselves is hard work and will take time. For myself and my son it was sometimes 2 steps forward ,1 step back and other times 1 step forward 2 steps back. You will just KNOW when he is on his road to recovery. That gamblers fog that Pangolin mentioned starts to lift and they start making sense again. The edge and the irrationality starts to ease. For my son it has been a slow process. He tried everything BUT GA as he was determined he was not going to do that "group thing". Finally his world started caving in on him and he started GA. That was a year ago and he has had 2 relapses but slowly but surely I am seeing my son again. It's a long haul but he has his journey and I have mine. Likewise this is your journey not your friends or nieghbors.

"What other people think of me is none of my business" 🙂

Stay strong as67!

"What other people think of me is none of my business"

That's brilliant, I will be using that often.

Thanks Amom, what you say makes total sense and really helps me see it more clearly. Weve waited so long for him to look for help it doesnt seem real and honestly I dont think hes genuine about getting the help for himself. What I think has happened is if hes not at university he will not get his student loan and no student loan means he cant gamble nor live with his girlfriend, I dont think its because he wants to stop gambling,of course I could be wrong and I hope I am.Trying to guess what hes going to do is a waste of time, Ive tried to predict what hes going to do for so long its difficult to get out of that mindset but I will. He is going to do what ever he wants as usual, hopefully he does get help for himself, if nothing else someone other than us have pointed out to him just how ill he is and maybe that will help it sink in. As I said earlier usually he would tell me he was going to do something and not carry it through, then I would ask why he hadnt or was he going to, and Id set myself up for the lies, maniuplation and abuse every time, Im not doing that any more. I thought I was helping, its made it worse, I came away upset, angry and frustrated and Im certain he got a kick out of it, that sounds so twisted but its true. I am getting better at the tough love and will carry it out all the way, I think its just gone on for so long being in the I need to help him mindset is hard to get out of , what you say helps me see that. We are getting back to some normality, some may even say boring, I mean my excitement today is picking a paint colour for our bedroom but I never thought that could feel so good and so normal. Life has revolved around him for so long even basic stuff like this been put to the side, couldnt of cared less anyway, but its a step in the right direction. Around Christmas time he seemed a little better and promised that hed stopped gambling, I wanted it to be true but I do rememeber saying to my husband that from what Ive read if he had genuinely stopped gambling he would of apologised by now and be making more of an effort to fix things and he wasnt it was just another part of his manipulation, and Christmas time was the perfect time to get what he needed, we bought him clothes but relatives gave him money. Oh well another lesson learned. We will carry on as we are, I wont be contacting him its all on our terms now, hopefully he gets well and we have a happy family again but I am prepared to not have him in our lives at all if thats what needs to be for our protection and sanity. Amom you have given me such support and encouragement I hope one day I can be that same help to someone that you have been to me. P.S The next person who dares tell me Im a rubbish Mum will get a less than lady like reply 🙂

Good on you for that last line 🙂

I can't imagine how difficult this must be for you but you must not blame yourself! I have posted to you on another thread so you know I'm a CG but what I didn't say is that for me the boot is on the other foot! My mother is a CG & the bare faced lies she tells to manipulate money beggar belief! I'm full of great ideas about not bailing loved ones out but in truth I know how d**n near impossible this can be & have bailed her out so many times because I keep clinging onto the hope that it will be different this time! Most upsetting have been the need to pay for family jewellery (that she was 'looking after') to be bought back from the pawn shop & getting her car log book back, a £2500 loan costing £300 per month interest!

I have tried to bring her on my journey but she just laughs @ me saying she doesn't have a problem. She's bitter that I have been able to hide my gambling better & have gotten most of the family handouts since she gambled away our mortgage & my Nan nearly lost her home & she has never once encouraged me to get help! I could go on but no need as what I'm trying to say is, despite her not showing it, I know she's in there somewhere & cares for me! Your son will too even if he's being a fool @ the moment but I know this doesn't make the pain of feeling unloved any more bearable! If I've missed a post, I apologise but I really do think Gamcare could point you in the right direction for some help for you both but more so you as your husband doesn't appear to be suffering the same level of guilt that you are being made to!

Keep feeling normal (that is my idea of bliss) & take care with the paint choice. I had to repaint my hall after 3 days because the delicious chocolate paint looked more like plaster once it had dried :-0

I really hope he gets this soon, but don't be too eager to accept just any apology...After all this anguish, it has to be heartfelt!

Keep looking after you - ODAAT

Funnily enough I had to repaint my hall after a lovely soft pink colour turned out to be te colour of dentures once it was dry.

Pangolin, weve had so many different colours on our walls some pretty horrible ones and Ive been banned from picking anything other pale and airy this time, but do you know how many light airy ones there are too choose from, - I know get a grip :).Denture colour Im pleased to say hasnt been one of them :). Thanks ODAAT, I have spoken to gamcare and Im waiting for a call to arrange my first counselling session and it cant come soon enough for me. I do feel differently to my husband, he loves our son just as much as I do but he can detach himself from the situation betther than I can he says hes helpeing in more practical ways. Ive found myself getting angry with him and as much as I tell myself its not his fault he doesnt feel the way I do, in reality Im angry at him and feel he should do more, but what that more is I dont know. In hindsight hes made a lot of sense and I should of toughened up as he would say a long time ago, and he says our son sees me as an easy target. Hes absolutely right he seldom goes to his dad for anything, I think his dad makes him nervous. My husband is a great dad always been hands on but hes not as easily influenced by our son as I am, I am learning though and getting better. We did have an incident where I couldnt find my Mums wedding ring, I was so paniced, I inherited after my Mum died I really thought hed taken it and sold it, turns out he hadnt, fallen down the back of some drawers, but hes told so many lies I wouldnt know if he was telling me the truth. That was such a bad day, I feel honoured that I was chosen to have that ring, any of my siblings could of had it, and it means so much to me and I thought I was going to lose it this way. It doesnt leave my person now he has no way of getting it or anything else. That must of been such an upsetting day for you Im pleased you got the jewellery back. I like to believe my son is in there but at the moment I cant see any part of him, I used to get tiny glimses now and then but theres nothing now. I really dont want to see or hear from him at this moment, and Im not prepared to do either in the future unless he shows some humilty and genuine remorse for what he's done. I used to tell myself that neither mattered and as long as he was safe then that was enough for me its not anymore.

Denture coloured bleugh :-0 If you're interested I have Spotlight now (it looks white but has a grey/purple hue) & I absolutely adore it!

I can understand your frustration with your husband but I imagine this swings both ways! I'm not a mummy (didn't wanna risk a mini-me) but I imagine the heart strings are stronger when you go through all that pain & men are wired differently to us anyway so tend to be more pragmatic. I hope the counselling will help you understand & be less frustrated with hubby! I held my breath with the wedding ring stuff as this illness is soul destroying enough...So glad it's safely with you now!

You do what's right for you, it doesn't make you any less perfect (coz you sound pretty cool to me) than you have always been, it's just time to try a different tact!

Be strong - ODAAT

Awww ODAAT, thanks for saying I sound cool, I assure you Im not, Im just a Mum. Spotlight sounds good I shall have a look at that today. You are right men do tend to be more pragmatic, hes sees that for him to help its do all the practical things, I really shouldnt quarrel with him he doesnt deserve it. Im sure the counelling will be good for me, wish I sought it out a long time ago, I sort thought it was either a weakness or I was being melodramatic, I do see now thats not the case. I hope you are doing ok and as you said to me be strong too 🙂