I've been with my fiancГ© 2 and a half years. He's always moaned about what he doesn't have although never able to tell me specifically what he's not getting or what he wants from me. Has flitted between me not giving enough to him being insecure and dealing with his own issues that he's always promised he'd sort. We went to counselling and things improved. He proposed 5 months ago...we bought a house together. Despite him feeling we needed a pre nup to secure his 40k deposit he eventually trusted me and we bought the house without it. I've been in some pretty crappy and dysfunctional relationships. I have kids, so does he from long term previous relationship.
i first noticed his gambling wasn't 'normal' around 18 months ago. We had conversations, arguments even. But he kept his 'habit' (his words) well hidden. Moaning and complaining at me that we'd overspent on our credit card by having a family Halloween party' by having HIS family over for Christmas dinner. All things I reassured him I would pay off in time and that were important to me...and him.
So 9 days ago, as I'm getting dressed to take my sister to hospital, I comment on his lack of interest in us. More interest in his gambling app. He shouts at me 'you really want to know how bad it is.' Then tells me he's 6k in debt.
6k? I've since discovered its 14k...in 6 months! His gambling has been going on longer and I suspect the real debt is probably double (partly paid off when we bought our house and now 14k outstanding on extended credit cards and overdraft).
He's admitted he has a problem. But not without lots of arguments. He's constantly turning things around to me. Says he's been told there has to be an underlying reason for his gambling and (without actually saying it) makes out its my fault somehow.
Is this typical cg behaviour? Failure to take responsibility? Blaming others? He accepts he got us 14k into debt. He won't show me bank statement prior to 6 months. Says he's not a child?! Won't give up his smart phone...even if means not giving to me but just get rid. Even though he's not allowed a smart phone at work due to security. Yet he was betting on his app in his lunch break. Up to £600a day...even though we have NO money for our wedding in 9 months! But he's given over his bank cards...all the time telling me he can do this on his own and doesn't need to be treated like a child!
He's had his phone assessment and has counselling this week. I have my phone assessment in2 week, but I feel I'm going crazy!
All the lies, the deceit, mistrust he's created...and still not taking complete ownership of this! I just don't know what to think or do for the best. I can juggle our finances and pick up the pieces. But with the lack of reassurance and understanding from him about what he's put ME through (and the kids) I just don't know. He doesn't want to be mothered. Yet he won't even cuddle me without being asked! He's wallowing in such self pity and just doesn't show me I mean ANYTHING to him unless I'm the one doing the reassuring and telling him it'll all be ok. Surely that's not right?
Apologies for the long message. I'm just lost in all this and nothing makes sense any more!
Hello,
My sympathies, this is not a club that any of us ever wanted to join. For me, the sense of being lost in it all and nothing making sense was the very worst aspect of living with a CG in denial. Everyone needs some sort of grounding, some baseline, some idea of what is or isn't normal. With that gone, of course you don't know where you are. Therefore it's more difficult for you to address the real issue ie his gambling...which makes it easier for him to gamble...which is precisely why he has put you in the "lost" situation that you describe. Compulsive gamblers do indeed play the mind games that you have noticed, they are extremely manipulative.
The reality is that his gambling is absolutely beyond your control. You didn't cause it, it's not because you spend too much / make him miserable / somehow act in the "wrong" way. It isn't your fault. He gambles because he's a CG and he gives in to the compulsion to gamble. But the flip side of the same coin is that you can't "make" him stop. Only he can choose between gambling and seeking help ie recovery. You can't make that choice for him.
What you can choose is how you deal with him. I found it impossible without support and accurate information, first time round, I was clueless. I recommend reading this part of the forum, also call the GC helpline, for immediate help. I attend GamAnon, which for me is worth the travel time and babysitters. Nothing fixes overnight but you can learn how to deal with the mind games, how not to finance the gambling, how to change your responses to him, how to pass the responsibility for the gambling back to him. Long term, you may need to decide whether you really want to sign up to a lifetime of his addict behaviour. You don't have to, but don't dither, never give an ultimatum that you can't see through.
Short term, put yourself and the children first. Protect yourself financially as far as you can, don't share passwords or PINs, keep your cards safe, separate your finances.
CGs in denial lie, so don't believe what he tells you. Only rely on what you see in bank statements and financial documents. I recommend getting credit reports in both names from all three agencies, which will tell you the true state of the debts.
If he wants to stop, there's a lot he can do to show you and keep showing you that he's serious. Don't accept half measures. My husband handed over full financial control, has a non Internet phone, his computer is blocked, he is self excluded from the websites, he cooperated with the credit searches, and he attends GA. Even then, it's hard.
On the hopeful assumption that you can take all of this in, I hope it helps.
Look after yourself,
CW
Thank you both for taking the time to reply. My head really is spinning from all of this and it's so much to take in. He's clearly still in denial of the addiction but I'm really concerned about his manipulative behaviour and lack of awareness of the effects of this on anyone but himself. From what I can see from this site and speaking with the gamecare advisors this is very typical behaviour of a cg. I've not spoken to him today as the minimal convo we had this morning was again putting blame on me and him playing the victim.
His failure to provide his accounts concerns me massively and his avoidance behaviour and constant defensiveness makes me believe there's more lies to discover about the man I fell in love with.
I really appreciate both your advice. I don't expect miracles overnight but until he faces up to this I don't think we can move forward. His first counselling session arranged via here is this Friday so that's a start I suppose.
Thanks again x
Hi, again,
First time round, I got denials, blame and total financial secrecy. I was led to believe that his bank statements weren't my business, I was invading his privacy, the children's bank statements weren't my business, I was a control freak who thought about nothing other than money.
Actually, he was still gambling.
Just my experience.
CW
Counselling was Friday and seemed to go better than I thought it would. He was positive. Read the paperwork about the triangle and how to distract himself and talked about the future in a more constructive way.
Saturday I had to work so he was at home with the kids. Apparently getting on with overtime. But he was distant all day. He has to sell his car so we can use the money to pay the debts he's accumulated. He wasn't happy that I won't 'allow ' him to take out another finance agreement for a cheaper car than the one he has. No argument as such, I told him he needs to face the consequences and whilst I'm happy to double my working hours and help him pay his debt off (all in his name but he can't afford the repayments without us losing the house) he need's to have some consequences to his choices and once debt is settled he can save and get a newer car on finance if his credit allows.
Throughout the night he was secretive with his phone. Little things I never noticed before but now the trust is gone i noticed it was odd.
I explained how I was feeling before bed, I was concerned he was distant and had been acting strange with his phone. Not letting it out of his sight, was switched from normal to silent not long after I got home and would only take out of his pocket if I left the room.
He gave his explanation and I said that's fair enough but doesn't add up. I needed to sleep and think about it (this was at 1130 and had to be up for work at 530).
10 mins later he started telling me how rubbish I was as a girlfriend. How I 'should' believe him and how long is this going to go on (its only 2 weeks since I found out!)
Then he starts telling me he can get better than this. I'm not being fair and it's obvious I don't love him, I don't call him when I'm at work (which I do sometimes just not all the time), telling me I'd let him walk away if he wanted to etc etc.
Basically turning everything around into being my fault. He called me names, was really mean.
I don't even know why I'm posting on here. I suppose I wonder if this behaviour ever stops? It's been there to some extent for a long time. When he first told me about his gambling 2 weeks ago it all made sense temporarily. I felt all the times he'd been like this before (without the name calling -this time was the worst his verbal abuse has ever been), was his guilt at the secret he was hiding.
Now I'm wondering why he's still behaving this way?
Why isn't he understanding that I can't just trust him immediately?
I know he must be a really insecure person and I honestly believe maybe he hid this well for the first year of our relationship.
But why is there so little remorse or understanding for me? So little patience? Such hate at times like he's in destruction mode and comes across like it would be easier for him to deal with this alone?
If anyone has any suggestions or views I'd really appreciate hearing them.
I love him so much. We're due to get married in 9 months. But I don't know if I can spend the rest of my life with someone who has so little respect for me.
I'm not due a call for my own counselling assessment for almost 2 weeks yet! But just day to day is really hard right now.
If we aren't going to stay together I have to uproot and unsettle my kids AGAIN...One is already struggling with anxiety in school and I believe that's because we moved 3 times last year whilst waiting for the purchase of our house to go through.
I won't stay in a relationship for the kids sakes. It's not healthy and anyway our relationship right now isn't a healthy one anyway!
Just at a loss to what to think about anything right now .. 🙁
Hi, Mer,
I'm sorry to hear that he's had another go at you. I would recommend human contact, GC are only a phone call away. Or comfide in a friend? Or a relative?
Can I suggest that you re read this entire thread and then think about his present behaviour in the light of the previous posts from HL and I? CGs are manipulative, they are absolute masters at twisting, blaming, shying away from responsibility. He is behaving like a compulsive gambler because he is a compulsive gambler. And sorry but from what you describe, he is almost certainly still actively gambling. Otherwise he would have handed over full financial control, be attending GA, cooperating with credit reports, have self excluded, have downgraded his mobile etc. Any signs of secrecy are ominous.
Trust is a red herring. You can't trust him in financial terms because he is a compulsive gambler. Attempts to persuade you otherwise are manipulative. Love is a separate question, if he stops behaving like a CG and turns back into a human being, then maybe. But love and trust have nothing to do with each other. You may trust your bank manager but you don't love him. You may love your partner but you don't trust him. And it would not be wise to trust him just because he's been clean for a while.
re the kids, the reality is that your relationship may not survive his gambling and there are stormy waters ahead. But you just have to do what you have to do, even if it's hard in the short term. The priority is to protect you and the children as best you can, emotionally and financially.
You're not alone, but it's hard. Take care of you.
CW
Thanks for your advice cw. It's just over 2 weeks since I last posted and nothing has really changed. We had 1 good weekend together where we focused on decorating our house and then by the tues he was distant and the weds morn I was getting the usual insecure texts about how I don't fancy him etc.
He still has his smart phone. There's a chance he's still gambling, although I have access to all his accounts (that I've been told about anyway!) And he has no access to money. I can't help but think he's up to something though.
He is distant at the best of times. I've met up with 3 friends and told them all. They are devastated for me, especially as we're supposed to be getting married in less than 9 months and it's paid for!
All he was concerned about was himself and what they'll think of him.
Again we're barely talking.
I don't see how we can go on like this. His efforts are still half hearted. He goes to counselling once a week and is more positive after. But he's no further forward selling his car or providing me with credit reports (these cost money which we simply don't have until end of the month because he's maxed every available credit facility).
At the same time, we're tied into a mortgage with huge fees if we exit before July 2017. I have kids to uproot again when they've just become settled. And the house needs pretty major work doing before we can sell anyway.
Aside from that of course I love him. Well, I love the him I thought he was. It's all so confusing still!
Counselling called last week but said there's a waiting list so I'm waiting for an update this week to see how long I have to wait for support.
When he'd focused on something else (like decorating) he's lovely and we get on really well. But he goes back to work and becomes distant. I don't know if he's lying. And I don't know how to catch him if he is.
I know for sure I don't want to live forever like this. But with very little from him I don't see how it's ever going to improve 🙁
Hi, Mer,
I'm sorry to hear that things are still bad. One of the list of behaviours that the GamAnon literature mentions is this "up and down" loving/cold, doing just enough to keep you on board but aiming to keep you off balance and insecure. I experienced it, the insecurity is horribly undermining, I'm sorry. It's good you told your friends, you need support. Less good about the wait for your counselling but it's worth persevering, use all channels available. Is GamAnon viable? No waiting lists there.
The statutory credit reports are £2 each; subscription services and improving your credit rating are extra. Each report (yours and his) are separate; if you can't get them all, get what you can, try to get at least one of his, you could get it/them by post and pay by cheque (it has to clear). HL did do it on line but by post you simply print out the PDF, he signs and you dispatch it, you need stamp, envelope and £2.
I would advise you to think long and hard before you commit to marrying him, when you're not happy. Why tie yourself further into more of the same? (Just why, you decide the do or don't). You might consider taking legal advice after pay day; some Solicitors offer a fixed fee first interview. It's clearly going to cost you in cash terms but your happiness can't be bought. And I've spent hours agonising over the question of what favours I'm doing the kids and what example I'm setting by staying after all that's happened.
Look after yourself,
CW
Hi Mer80
Im the mum of a compulsive gambler and althought mine is a different relationship to yours my sons behaviour is exactly the same as every other cg.
Unfortunately compulsive gambling is a progressive illness and with time your partner will get worse, and you need to give it some serious thought what being married to him will be like.
I was told a long time ago to seperate the cg behaviour from the love I feel for my son, - as if I didnt have the emotional attatchment. Its very hard but I accept that the addcition is ruling my son at the moment and it helps to be able to make decisions with this in mind rather than seeing it as a mother son relationship.
You can not trust a single word that comes out his mouth, and dont fall for the "so you dont believe me" speech its all part of the guilt trip they lead you on, Ive heard it all countless times. I now say unless you're prepared to prove what you say then no I dont believe you. They are the most manipulative people you will ever meet and will do and say what ever they need to to be able to continue to gamble. Your feeling that something isnt quite right is most certainly spot on, you would be very wise to take notice of this.
By the sounds of things your partner is in denial and is nowhere near ready for recovery and you must make decsions based on what is right for you and your children not him. I understand your worries about your children but Id say its probably better to deal with now than risk years of living with cg and the damage that will do.
Keep pushing for that counselling, and get as much support for you and your children as you can and always no matter what he says put you and them first. Its very sad to say but we are not a cg's priority no matter who we are, for them it will always be their next bet. Do not be swayed by any of the things he says to you, and dont get dragged into arguments that you'll never win, it will drive you mad.
Take care
Hi Mer, I've just realised that you've only had loved ones of CG's post so far & wanted to drop by to second every word they say about not trusting us & looking after you & your children!
I don't know what drove me whilst gambling but I manipulated money from anywhere I could short of pay day lenders. My mum went several steps further, pawned family jewellery, took out a Log Book loan, stole from me whilst I slept to mention a few. Does she love me? Yep! Can she stop? No! Many many times throughout both of our gambling 'careers' we have wanted to 'beat it'/be cured but when I said that, I only ever really wanted to stop losing. This addiction can only be beaten with determination & hard work, lip service is not enough! I have a very long way to go but I am trying (very sometimes but that's just life) & visibly trying. If your husband to be is not putting in the effort you need him to, you must think long & hard about what is acceptable to you...The money you lose from cancelling the wedding will pale into insignificance against a lifetime of deceit & sadness that lies ahead if he doesn't up his game!
Look after you - ODAAT
Thank you all for taking the time to comment, I really appreciate all your views as it's helping me understand this better than I'm doing on my own.
Another night of arguments and put downs. It really can't get any worse. I've told him to cancel the wedding and I mean it. I've also asked him to leave and I mean that too. He's so horrible to me, blaming me for all sorts and we're just going around in circles.
I'm not being supportive enough as far as what he's going through and how rubbish he feels about what he's done etc. He's withdrawn and that causes me to worry more, he's not affectionate, not that I want any more than a reassuring cuddle right now but even that is too much to ask. He says if I loved him id be more understanding of him. I just can't do it any more. It's going to take time to sell the house and I can't just uproot my kids after 6 months of being here so I'm hoping it'll stay amicable. Of course I still hope for some miracle and he'll change his insecurities and put downs but I'm also well aware that's unlikely to ever happen and I'm going to have to mourn the man I have loved and lost.
My journey with this is far from over so forgive me if I keep posting for a bit. I'm absolutely devastated that he's not the man I thought he was and shows little care or concern for anything but himself. I feel so stupid for believing in him for so long and falling for his constant lies as well as taking the abuse he's thrown at me 🙁 I also think any change in him would be short term.
Cw, how do I get these leaflets you mentioned? This behaviour is exactly him!
Thanks again for commenting everyone, I really appreciate it 🙁 x
Hi, Mer,
GamAnon produce very helpful literature, can you get to a meeting? I have found it worth the effort, in ours there's about ten to fifteen people, all affected by a family member's gambling. No judgment but sympathy, support and suggestions based on experience.
I had a whole crisis because having read one particular leaflet, I realised that my husband had displayed every single one of the anti-social addict behaviours described (including the obvious blame shifting but also less obvious things like refusing to participate in family time or engage in family gatherings because they were taking up valuable gambling time). And I had meekly put up with it for years! I have decent qualifications and a professional job, I hadn't realised that I was such a mug! I still am, I can't say anything to my husband about it, he just wouldn't get it. I am having counselling and one of the killer questions that she asked me was why did I not think that I deserved better.
Back to you, though, I am not telling you what to do, the following is practical advice to think about.
If you mean to end the relationship, then see it through, however disruptive. Any hesitation is taken as a sign of weakness ripe for exploitation. For example, if the wedding is being cancelled (your decision on that one), then behave as if the wedding is off, start the cancellations, tell him what arrangements you've cancelled and generally talk to him in a way that assumes that the wedding is off, to show him that you're serious. Or if he is to leave, then ask about the practical arrangements in a manner that assumes that he is leaving. Actions speak louder than words.
Sorry, that was practical but the emotional is huge, get human support.
Finally, be warned that as you get stronger and take a harder line, he will probably react with anger. It's partly an addict's tactic to encourage you to back off also because you may be inhibiting the gambling, he's losing his safety net. But none of this is your fault, you're doing what you have to do to protect yourself.
Look after yourself!
CW
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