Lived experience and giving advice

I am often overawed by the wisdom that I see

From kindly Gamcare friends who walk this road with me

Some stride out with confidence - others lose their way 

But side by side we labour on each and every day

Know not where they came from or where ever they do roam 

But I do know we're brothers and sisters looking to find our way home

Love and best wishes to everyone.

From.

Stephen x x x 

My point , right from the outset, is that for me, advice through experience is better for the recipient than just throwing advice for the sake of it. If the general feeling is that it doesn't matter where that advice comes from, there may as well be a fixed post that has all the advice that is mentioned on here each and every time and we can just direct newcomers to that post. Do this, do that, say this, and so on.
But, if this allows some open minded people to think about their experience and how it applies to newcomers questions and concerns then I for one would be interested to hear about peoples experiences.

For the record, there are some wrong answers. These are normally opinions, but one persons opinion doesn't trump fact, experience or recognised best practice.

Chris.

Posted by: Forum admin

Dear @chris-uk,

As you know, recovery is not a simple, straightforward event. The same way as having a gambling problem doesn’t come in one singular shape or form. People gamble for a myriad of reasons. And part of the recovery process is understanding why one gambles and understanding what the triggers are and either learn to cope with the triggers or find ways to manage these trigger situations. There are some basics in recovery that will apply to everyone, mainly the access to money, time and place element. If someone wants to stop gambling, they will have to block or limit their access to all of these three. If these blocks are put into place the right way (as I always say, if people leave back doors open they will walk through those back doors eventually) this will make it really hard to gamble. However, this is just the first step on the road to recovery. It is so much more then not being able to gamble. It is about creating new habits around approaching money, it is about creating new habits around how to cope with stress or trauma. It is about learning to like and love yourself again. It is about reaching out and building bridges through honesty and care with the people we’ve hurt along the way.  In some cases it is about getting the right specialist support for past trauma. And it is about understanding that all of this takes time, it takes effort and in some form or another this will be something one will have to keep an eye on going forward.

None of this will happen in one conversation or even in a hundred conversations. Without action change is not possible. At least not sustainable change. But we are here to help everyone along the way. Recovery is difficult at times. There are setbacks. Knowing that there is a place people can turn to and won’t be judged and that they are not alone is an immense help for many. Over the years I have spoken to thousands of people. Every single person I spoke to was in a unique situation. Often in a crisis and in great deal of distress. For these people having someone at the other end of the line who can show empathy, who doesn’t judge them, who can show they genuinely care and want to help them is a lifeline. I often say to new advisers (or anyone who wants to know about what we do here) that we are saving lives every day. And we really do. And to do this, we don’t have to have experienced the exact same things in life.  We have a number of advisers with lived experience but more of us didn’t have a gambling problem. What is crucial is that we care about the individual and that we know the basics of what works and can explain why we recommend or advise these things.  

We also always recommend callers go to GA, come on the Forum or to Chat for the experience of talking to others and to see what they did. To be able to talk to people who have had similar experiences.

So in summary I would argue that both are important and useful – advice from someone who is trained to give advice and advice from someone who can share their own experience in a similar situation.

Wishing you all the best,

Eva

Forum Admin

Great post from Eva. 

@mikethelion Sorry that I missed your post. Your post is the good post that I'm talking about. Yours is what GA would call a therapy, or a condensed one at least, and others can identify with your story. Maybe not exactly, but if they have done similar things then that allows them to identify and know that they're not alone, that there are others like them.

The fact that you relapsed and are back on here might mean that you pick up some of the advice mentioned around the forum, or you may ask a question. If you do please be assured that any advice I offer will be based on my experience, be it a relapse or overcoming my fears to move my life forward. It will be based on what I did. If I can empathise with a relapse, believe me I have relapsed. If I can talk about how I recover, believe me when I say I have been at the very bottom before I started my climb out of the hole. And if my experience helps or encourages one other person  to try what I did, it will have been worth it.

Chris.

@forum-admin Thank you Eva, I agree with what you are saying completely about the recovery process. As someone who has worked through the 12 steps and now helps others through the 12 steps, I am completely on board with the fact that stoping gambling is only a part of it, recovery comes from change and actions, as well as honesty, open mindedness and willingness. 

I appreciate that you may or may not have experienced what others have gone through, but signposting and having empathy for someone in pain doesn't really need that experience, but if someone said what did you do and you haven't walked the walk, do you answer with a stock answer from a book? 

If someone on here talked about leaving their children in a car while they went and gambled and only meant to be gone for 5 minutes but came back 30 minutes later, how many people without this illness who may not even contemplate such actions would be able to not be judgemental. You may be trained to not show that judgement but if someone could sit there nodding and saying I understand, I did something similar, would that not be more powerful for the original person to feel they could connect?

I am in no way criticising the good work any of the admin or advisers do. The fact that you do is testament to your character and undoubtedly appreciated by those that need help. As a GA member I appreciate any help in getting members through the door, likewise I recommend those who don't want to attend a meeting to at least talk to an adviser.

Thank you for your input.

Chris.

Have you ever heard a football manager talking about his players and how some need an arm around their shoulder, a hug, a father figure, some need a couple of quick words of encouragement, some need a wink and a gee-up and some need a bollocking, a fierce tongue lashing, swearing at a a good verbal kicking.  We, the Gambling Addicts, CGs etc are that team of different personalities.

The trouble with a forum is not one of us know what personality or character we are dealing with and most of us are certainly not professional therapists or councillors giving advice - we simply say what we think based on our experiences and a quick read of the post.

Our response might not be appropriate in tone or content but how do we know when responding to the written word? We don't know.........so you could be giving the player who wants the hug a bollocking.

We can only do our best and of course sometimes we will get it wrong. Many times probably.......

I do see your point Chris and in a certain aspect of it you may well be right

However I dont think its the whole picture. I dont think everyone wants to hear what I did step by step. I cant cover everything in a first post so I get to the root of the honesty/openness foundations and breaking the time location money triangle.

I adapt how I say things depending on what I see written down. I think thats the right thing to do. Yes I may not connect with that person. In their pain and confusion I may come over as a patronising , interfering know it all....well I did this can sound worse than just giving basic advice

All some people want to hear is take care mate and they form little sub groups saying that to each other. That may help to start with but sometimes I dont feel they are moving forward with a recovery journey. They dont seem ready to hear any more but thats the nature of  trying to recover from this addiction

I have to judge what Im going to say. I dont always get it right for that person but I am trying with a good heart

Im saying things that people need to hear...not just what they want to hear.. With this addiction one day they might think oh yeah he was right. If they are not telling partners and loved ones....I want to know why?

You see I didnt get on with GA meetings decades ago but that was to do with me. I wasnt ready and it was mainly because I thought I was a lightweight la di da gambler and the meetings were all a bit heavy for me.. Im not in the same league as them I thought...theyve got problems and I really dont. I was also a very shy isolated person and my failure to enter a proper recovery cost me dearly for another twenty five years

On balance I know GA do great work as I have chatted with enough people who rely on and deeply praise Gamblers Anonymous meetings.

Therefore on balance I recommend people give it a try. The reason I dont go now is personal to me. I miss the thought of group meetings but my recovery is going fine. I dont think telling everything about my personal circumstances is helpful nor does it catch me out.

Ive had useless counselling for depression ( forced to go ...useless counsellor who didnt even understand depression) but I wouldnt dismiss the whole idea of counselling for other people... I often say you may need counselling because its something to be seriously considered. Im not saying professional counselling has to be the be all and end all. Talking with a friend or loved one can be extremely theraputic

Yes of course its all my opinion but its a considered opinion based on tried and trusted methods, experience and the advice of others

Do you think "advice" just comes over a lecturing or imposing your opinion on someone. Im not advising them how to be a pop star. Im advising them on true basics I know about...what they do to build on that is up to them.

People want to talk and they generally ask for advice when they join the forum. I treat everyone here as adults who can make their own decisions.

Best wishes to everyone on the forum

Thanks I appreciate the feedback. I want to encourage others that they can build back after major setbacks and through effort and determination we can all do it. We all chose different ways to recover or understand ourselves and there isn't a one size fits all solution. One thing I did find frustrating is the nature of the approach to recovery. It seems to me that the method has a tendency to pigeon hole people into alcohol-drugs-gambling-s*x but I believe in my case, having had problems with all of the above, that my problem is deeper and non-specific and I didn't know where to go for help. Does that resonate with anyone else?

Hi mikethelion I very much appreciate your honesty and some things you have put in your post are not discussed often enough on here. One guy put the last thing in your list of addictions in his post and o*g did it cause uproar with the forum moderating people's posts etc and I don't think the guy ever came back. Really sad because he was reaching out and was suffering with at least 3 addictions, aspects in his life, I'm not going to say too much and risk setting it off again. It's like I'm writing a coded message !! Anyway I've always had issues with my mental health, impulsive and compulsive behaviour since my teen years and finally in my 50s I'm getting to grips with things now 6 months gamble free I too often wonder why I've come from a family of extremely stable ,compliant ,good with money etc etc parents. Yet I'm as I am !! I've always tended to gravitate to similar people which is why I think GA suits me and part of the reason why I'm happier and getting to grips with who I am. Any more input from yourself would be gratefully received I'm 100% convinced that resonating with like minded people is healing.

Well this site is gambling specific and I guess its reasonable to try to keep it on topic as much as possible but its important to be inclusive and reach out to anyone that needs support regardless of their issue. There is no doubt that sharing and talking help- this was my first move after realising I had re-lapsed. I was so ashamed of myself the first time around I didn't know what to do next and certainly could not have told family or friends having had experiences in the past when I have shared my weaknesses and excessive behaviour and found a friendly ear from my peer group or family only to find later that snide comments and/or jokes/references were made in conversation at my expense. The whole point of a place like this is that, to some extent, we all understand each other and therefore don't judge. 

You don't have to have lived something to offer advice, sometimes just age or experience can give us more insight into life in general and we can offer advice and support based on common bleedin sense! Don't forget there may be others out there who don't have the experience or perspective to understand things that many people feel are obvious or apparent. Its a delicate balance we have to walk between forcing our opinions on others and taking the time to respond. We are going to get that wrong from time to time, that's a given. 

Stay strong people these are testing times, especially for those of us with limited social contact with others. There are no easy answers so go for the difficult ones and keep working till you find some kind of solution. 

@mikethelion Absolutely I can identify. I couldn't before I worked the twelve step program as I thought it was just the gambling that was the problem and when I wasn't gambling I was fine. A decent bloke, kind, caring, all the normal things that other people seemed to be, but in discussion in my GA group with others more experienced than me it was pointed out that gambling wasn't the problem. I was the problem and gambling was the sympton of my issues. Since then I've worked on myself and faced some real life challenges and not relapsed, something that I had done many times before. I am a changed person because of that program and the work that I put into myself.

The other key point in my recovery is the acceptance that I could bet again. But, and it's an A4 size BUT, I work really hard every day not to. I go back to my step one, "We admitted we were powerless over gambling  and that our lives had become unmanageable". If I admit and believe that, I just can't place that first bet, because I would be lost to it afterwards.

Thanks also to the other who have joined in this conversation. 

Excellent subject for debate. Best post's I've read on here. Particularly the replies from Joy/ mike and charlie. Truly interesting subject chris. 

Posted by: M&P

Have you ever heard a football manager talking about his players and how some need an arm around their shoulder, a hug, a father figure, some need a couple of quick words of encouragement, some need a wink and a gee-up and some need a bollocking, a fierce tongue lashing, swearing at a a good verbal kicking.  We, the Gambling Addicts, CGs etc are that team of different personalities.

The trouble with a forum is not one of us know what personality or character we are dealing with and most of us are certainly not professional therapists or councillors giving advice - we simply say what we think based on our experiences and a quick read of the post.

Our response might not be appropriate in tone or content but how do we know when responding to the written word? We don't know.........so you could be giving the player who wants the hug a bollocking.

We can only do our best and of course sometimes we will get it wrong. Many times probably.......

Just want to say that this is a brilliant post and sums it up perfectly.

We don't need to overthink this subject. It's an open forum, it is moderated to a helpful level and we try to help others.

Best wishes to everyone

Posted by: Joydivider

Posted by: M&P

Have you ever heard a football manager talking about his players and how some need an arm around their shoulder, a hug, a father figure, some need a couple of quick words of encouragement, some need a wink and a gee-up and some need a bollocking, a fierce tongue lashing, swearing at a a good verbal kicking.  We, the Gambling Addicts, CGs etc are that team of different personalities.

The trouble with a forum is not one of us know what personality or character we are dealing with and most of us are certainly not professional therapists or councillors giving advice - we simply say what we think based on our experiences and a quick read of the post.

Our response might not be appropriate in tone or content but how do we know when responding to the written word? We don't know.........so you could be giving the player who wants the hug a bollocking.

We can only do our best and of course sometimes we will get it wrong. Many times probably.......

Just want to say that this is a brilliant post and sums it up perfectly.

We don't need to overthink this subject. It's an open forum, it is moderated to a helpful level and we try to help others.

Best wishes to everyone

Cheers mate.....the only thing that regularly bugs me about this site is when I continually forget to tick the 'I am not a robot' box and have to log in twice! 

Have a good weekend

Mick

Thanks Mick.

There are some great posts on this topic so I don't think we have any worries about the standards of commitment and advice on this forum

All the best