Rock bottom

Rock bottom, shock bottom, hitting the concrete, whatever phrase people wish, is not needed for a foray, even an extremely long one into abstinence. I think it may come into place for people who simply cannot live with who they have become or cannot emotionally cope with the person they have always been.
My personal rock bottom came around 2.5 years after having stopped gambling. I knew i couldnt go on with being the man i was. I hated myself & the world. The gambling had just given me an excuse to blame something outside of myself. On abstaining from gambling i slowly came to the realization that i had a deep dissatisfication with both myself & the way i lived my life. I stood for no-one or no thing. I had no values or morality other than to serve my own desire to have everything my way.
This realization was the only thing that could kick me into change.

Rock bottom is never about monetary implications, it is about spiritual ones.

day@atime wrote: Rock bottom, shock bottom, hitting the concrete, whatever phrase people wish, is not needed for a foray, even an extremely long one into abstinence. I think it may come into place for people who simply cannot live with who they have become or cannot emotionally cope with the person they have always been. My personal rock bottom came around 2.5 years after having stopped gambling. I knew i couldnt go on with being the man i was. I hated myself & the world. The gambling had just given me an excuse to blame something outside of myself. On abstaining from gambling i slowly came to the realization that i had a deep dissatisfication with both myself & the way i lived my life. I stood for no-one or no thing. I had no values or morality other than to serve my own desire to have everything my way. This realization was the only thing that could kick me into change. Rock bottom is never about monetary implications, it is about spiritual ones.

I agree with Dan despite our previous disagreements generally caused by my inability to see a) he wasn't having a go at me and b) there was a message I wasn't "getting" which I think slowly I am. I definitely agree that from my point of view a "rock bottom" isn't to do with money but morals, emotions, self-loathing - all of which cannot be tackled overnight but I can understand from someone who just started using a forum like this, their initial (in a lot of instances) reasons for seeking help will be due to the debts and other money issues. I think some initial TLC and then start some probing (if appropriate) about underlying issues if the person is receptive to it which of course not everyone will be or ready to be. Also if someone come here just to discuss monetary issues I guess that's to be respected as well? Just some thoughts. Best wishes, Phil.

This debate makes me smile and I will also agree with Dan, but the debate was whether saying to someone that they hadn't met there rock bottom was helpful or not. So Dan/ Philyou've deviated a little from the subject The original stance was that it could be a unhelpful term, I agreed with it was a unhelpful term and then I saw the other side to the coin and realised that despite it being very harsh to say to someone who relapsed all the time. but more helpful terminology might come across as better.... I think though I've hit my rock bottom on this particular subject as the record has scratched sufficiently enough..

Maybe a case of the statement being taken out of context in the wrong environment. But agreed on this site, Rock bottom is a concept unhelpful here, but you could argue that about anything given as advice.
Give up your cash, i hear them cry.
Ban yourself, they holler.
Tell your partner, they insist.

Lots of cliches trotted out in the name of help, with little or no information on the person they are directing it towards. Sounds dangerous to me.

Its a complex subject. I have experienced some form of depression all my knowing life. I have never been comfortable in my own skin or enjoyed life as others seem to do. I remember my first major gambling session on a holiday machine forty years ago. It was all sorts of things including getting away from a boring evening in a cottage with my parents. In many ways it was a cry for help from an introverted, depressed kid who couldnt seem to find any real joy or excitement on the holiday. I felt truly alive with a pocket full of coins sneaking out of the house

Though all the years I hated my jobs and the people I worked with. I chose jobs that were totally unsuitable just to have a job really. I have never really liked office work but just went from one office job to another. This was mainly because I hated myself and what I had become. I had no values or direction how to make my life fulfilling and worthwhile. I felt trapped in a system of sham drudgery and I hid behind material possessions. I tried to use material possessions as a crutch. I borrowed way too much to get more possessions and ended up selling them for next to nothing before the bailiffs took them. They didnt make me happy but I remember having a breakdown when I was 26 and living on all the proceeds from my stuff/car until I went bankrupt

I had brief moments of happiness with a clear horizon. Maybe I just felt free and unworried at that moment

I have a lazy streak and started to think the world owed me a living. I drifted in an out of relationships that I put no effort into saving. The relationship happened to me if you like...random chance encounters where the other person did all the asking. I had chronic low self esteem and tried to brave it out with expensive clothes and hanging around in places I really hated. I hated myself and I hated the world which made me more isolated. I hid in my isolation which gave me a false sense of relief and security.

Throughout all this I was binge gambling perhaps when the stress depression and loneliness built up to intolerable levels. I just felt lonely most of the time and would walk over to a gambling machine.

Gambling was a symptom of my mental state which itself became an addiction. I had been addicted to "fruit" machines all my life.

So yes what finally did make me do the right things to stop gambling. Something clicked and I love being gamble free

The counselling helped me talk about it and work on who I am and what I can put back into life in terms of giving.

Its an interesting topic thread on a very deep and soul searching subject

Best wishes

They hollered ban yourself and I did , They insisted that I tell my partner and I did , Thy also insisted on keeping that triangle broken , again which I did , also To be honest and open and live the best life I can , to accept the things I cannot change , the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference but first in order to do that I had to hit " Rock bottom " and guess what ? " In combination It all worked " and while I respect your wisdom due to the gamble free time you've aquired It doesn't always have to be " The Dan way or No way " My friend as other brands are available .

Alan , Compulsive Gambler ( 18 months gamble free ) x

OK well I'm not going to contribute anymore to this thread as a) I was just expressing a view and b) rock bottom can mean anything to do the individual and c) opinions are not facts + I'm not after a spat. Best wishes, Phil.

Phil , I'm not after a " Spat " as you put it , It's a debating thread and Dan has put his view across that he feels the information that many posters give on here is wrong and I tend to disagree with that statement ,for the reasons I have given and that's all :)).

If you sit on the fence all the time , it tend's to give you " Splinter's In yer B.um " Phil .

Best wishes to you too Phil :))

Alan I know you're not mate and neither am I. I know how kind, helpful and supportive you have been to other forum users including me. Best wishes, Phil.

day@atime wrote: Maybe a case of the statement being taken out of context in the wrong environment. But agreed on this site, Rock bottom is a concept unhelpful here, but you could argue that about anything given as advice. Give up your cash, i hear them cry. Ban yourself, they holler. Tell your partner, they insist. Lots of cliches trotted out in the name of help, with little or no information on the person they are directing it towards. Sounds dangerous to me.

Fantastic, cliches my topic with chap I'm speaking too and how cliches and ' recovery ' terminology helping to get this confused man trapped ...

day@atime wrote: Maybe a case of the statement being taken out of context in the wrong environment. But agreed on this site, Rock bottom is a concept unhelpful here, but you could argue that about anything given as advice. Give up your cash, i hear them cry. Ban yourself, they holler. Tell your partner, they insist. Lots of cliches trotted out in the name of help, with little or no information on the person they are directing it towards. Sounds dangerous to me.

You seemed to have missed ga/ counselling out of your cliche list there dan , there not cliches there called standard advice . Say the majority of people come and say please help me what shall I do? Do we wait 3 months because their post doesn't tell us what kind of toppings they like on the pizza or do you give them a standard set of advices ? Imagine if no one did any interaction?

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Dan - not too sure I get your point here and it could be more clear.

I don't see what's wrong with standard advice per se. For example, standard blocks, opening up and attending therapy seems never bad advice. So this can be promoted readily without fear of unintended negative consequences. I would add to that list, encouragement towards people accepting that addiction's a symptom of a deeper problem.

It might be nice to tailor advice but that's not realistic here. Particularly when many give you little to work with.

I feel that much of my energy on here is spent on trying to raise awareness of gambling being a symptom of a bigger problem. And trying to bring this into the ambit of 'general advice'.

I'm guessing your beef is with the content of general advice, rather than advice being generic?

I share some concern, in so far as advice focuses excessively on 'blocks' or treats addiction as some distinct process which exists in isolation from a deeper crisis we have. This can be counterproductive as it makes people think if they cut out gambling everything will follow. Which doesn't seem to be the case.

No doubt there can be hypocracy and I can look at my own behaviour and see times were my actions haven't met my words. But if people are living a 'reality gap' that's their issue, need for it bother you?

Louis

Louis thanks for the civilized reply. In the melee to have a pop at me, Joydividers terrific post seems to have got overlooked. Thanks for sharing that JD. I wasnt suggesting the advice given was bad or wrong, just that although i constantly hear recovery is bespoke ( now there is a cliche to debate over) people give out the same one piece of advice over & over again. From my experience, a dependance on monetary barriers is a relapse waiting to happen. Time, money, location? Ive never even heard Time or Location(Environment as it always was before it got bastardized on here) explained. Advice, sayings can be taken anyway people wish. Some are willing to try anything that might work, others will always look for a reason they wont work. Maybe i had a bee in my bonnet over a 12 Step Slogan being slagged off again. Maybe it was another racist attempt at humour i saw on here. Maybe it was peoples desire to moderate who can say what. Maybe i just had a bad day. It happens.

Hopefully next time i post my mood will have improved

I have actually got huge respect for you , as someone who has clocked up over 10 yrs gamble free and for what youv'e survived along the way.

Youv'e just said that " I wasn't suggesting the advice given out was Bad or Wrong " but said in your original post " advice was unhelpfull , full of cliche's and that it sounded dangerous to you " , so which is it ?

You said "dependance on monetry barriers is a relapse waiting to happen " and to that point I agree with you but the advice given out doesn't just comprise of that alone and even if it did then surely that's a start ? , 10 yrs ago when you stopped where you given any advice ? and where would you be if as Deano suggested the other night , nobody bothered to make a suggestion to you to take any action ? .

I came here looking for help , I had no idea where it would lead but If the likes of Kelly , Suzzane and many others had not given me that basic set of advice to set the ball rolling , I don't think I would have coped on my own.

The Time, money , location advice does work and if nothing else it afforded me the time to think about placing another bet instead of heading back to the first bookies I stumbled across , with a fistfull of money and cards in hand and at that time in my life I would have taken any form of control as for so many years I had none at all .

I am happy and jokey here and why not ? It doesn't all have to be a bad experience and many of us prefer to get through a day with a laugh instead of a cry , god knows I did enough of that when gambling , I've now stopped for 18 months , so what's not to enjoy as life's good once again !.

We are all sensitive on here and from the sounds of things your no different to us.

Best wishes.