Rock bottom

Hey love...sorry to read you are going through so much...I can't really comment on your husband's gambling as I am the gambler in my marraige....what i can comment on is your sadness in the releationship....ok...so it's obviously all linked to the gambling....but if hubby is not even admitting to a gambling problem...or maybe even realising he has a problem then that's going to be the hard bit....all I can do is ad use you to ring the gamcare help line and women's aid helpline....they are not just there for ""battered wifes""....but will offer you good advise on your situation....and from people on here you will always get support...I wish you well and hope just knowing people are here helps a little x

Phew! You are having an awful time. It sounds like you have made your mind up of what you are going to do for yourself and your son. You need to gather all the information together now and set a plan of action. It's such a shame how this addiction can ruin both the cg and their loved ones lives. It's a shame your husband has changed through having this addiction and that he is not willing to try and overcome it. I wish you and your son well. Wcid x

Hi, KitKat,

I'm sorry to hear how bad things are for you. I too have been married twenty years, I was clueless for sixteen of them, then I saw a bank statement. First time round, I got lies, denials, blame, broken promises and more gambling. This time round, it came to light that he had cleared out the children's savings accounts, he was told to get help or get out...and since then he has done and still does what he needs to do to remain gamble free. I have full financial control, computers are blocked, he is self excluded, he goes to regular meetings and nine months down the line there are some indications that the " stinkin' thinking" is starting to change. But it's been terrible and our relationship is still really fragile, I also don't know if we can stay married.

The thing is, as long as you take what he dishes out, you don't disturb the racing viewing, you pay the bills and don't prevent his access to your surplus cash, he has no reason to change. I also did it for years, I sympathise but you have to realise that you can't change him, he isn't going to spontaneously see the damage that he's doing and agree to give up, after which all will be well. But you can change you and you can change your responses. Be prepared for him not to like your proposed reduction in cooperation.

You should protect you and your son financially as best you can, separate what finances you can and get statutory £2 credit reports in your name and his from all three agencies, so that you can see the state of the debt. Then you and your mother should get legal advice about how to protect your share of the house and if you've had enough, about divorce. Some Solicitors do fixed fee interviews, it would be money well spent.

In terms of your attitude, I would advise you to generally behave as if the gambling is a real problem and you are thinking of ending your marriage over it. Spell it out. Be prepared for the usual manipulation, his self pity, blaming you for his troubles, empty promises to change (actions speak louder than words, if he goes to a GA meeting that's better than talking of maybe doing it next week). Also don't take responsibility for his choices, make it clear that if he gambles, he is responsible for gambling, he can't justify it through you. If he chooses recovery, it's his choice that he makes for him, it's not dependant on your choice about whether or not to end your marriage.

Hope this helps,

CW

Thanks for your comments, from both sides of the fence. I have held it all together for 20 years keeping everything secret that now I have opened up and discussed his behaviour with loved ones, have realised how he has changed me into a nobody, worthy of nothing, and no opinion, constantly making me feel worthless, useless ! Even in front of people and I feel such an idiot to have let someone treat me so bad. That's the part that really hurts and why I don't want him around anymore. I know it will wreck him and he will make my life hell, and use my son as bait saying I will be ruining his life, at a very vulnerable age for him, just starting GCSEs, but I really can't stick at it for another 2 years. I just want some time and space for me to find myself again, really want a divorce but feel a bit guilty as it seems so harsh as though I have just given up on him. There is the guilt on me again! He has had plenty of chances in the past, but always disappoints.

Thanks for your advice, I will have a chat with women's aid and helpline and get a plan into action to get this sorted. Then will sort out joint account and start moving things forwards.

Is it normal to feel really strong and positive looking forward to the future one moment, then a blubbering wreck the next? Or is it just my hormonal and menopausal symptoms lurking around?

Hi, KitKat,

Yes, because it's really hard, whatever choices you finally make.

Get real life support, I recommend GamAnon, also it's good that you've told family members. It's part of not trying to carry the whole load yourself. Also, it might dry up his access to cash sources...my husband at one point borrowed money from his mother and persuaded her to keep quiet about it to "protect" me.

re your son, I found it hard, trying to do what's best for the children. Your son knows the tension, knows his father's behaviour isn't right. I did my eldest no favours by putting up and shutting up all these years, it may not be worse to make the break, even with exams coming up.

Mainly, though, look after yourself,

CW

Thanks CW. I have made some progress and have spoken to a counsellor yesterday, it was really hard saying the words out loud, something I really struggle with. Onwards and upwards as they say. We have a family holiday booked over Easter, which I'm dreading really, but going to try and be as civil as I can to him, and let my son have some relief and enjoy his holiday. He is normally better on holiday as doesn't have much access to betting shops, and as we are busy here and there cannot get to iPads to see what is going on in the racing world. I will make use of the time thinking, reflecting and deciding the next steps forward. I am going to get brave and tell my mother (that will be hard) then try and sort out mortgage etc, and joint bank accounts etc. There is so much to sort out....... But taking small steps at a time. Thanks for all your advice.

Me again, small steps seem like huge mountains some days. Trying really hard to stay focused and strong, but it's so hard to keep going some days. I feel like I am in mourning, grieving for something that I have never had, just can't stop crying. I have the rare odd day Where I make it all the way through without a breakdown, but they seem to be less and less. I am wanting to make the next step and sort out our joint bank accounts but know that it is going to cause serious hassle and repercussions galore ! Not sure what the best solution is, to take my name off the account, or take his off instead ? Our mortgage is linked also, which makes it a bit tricky, or to go into the bank and see what they have to say ?! I have my own private account where my wages are now being paid into. Any help or advice appreciated ? Thanks

Hi, KitKat,

re the mortgage, it is tricky because the house and the mortgage have to be in the same names. And when the lender makes the decision to lend, they take account of all income, and they have to give their permission for him to come off the mortgage and for the house to go into your and your mother's name. In effect, it's a transfer and remortgage. The other issue is that lenders don't like people occupying property without being on the mortgage, it can make it harder for them to sell in the event of arrears and default. If you are minded to divorce (your call), seek a binding financial settlement which will address what happens to the house. Getting him off the mortgage is pretty hard if you stay together but him staying on it and gambling is a real risk to you. Conclusion: get legal advice, worth paying for it.

re bank accounts, have accounts in your name that he can't touch and move what you can into them so that you can deal with household outgoings. Not sure what your arrangements are but the advantage of a joint account is that you have access to it. If he has his own accounts, you don't, without his permission and cooperation. I would write to the bank saying that you don't authorise gambling transactions, loans or overdrafts and send it by recorded. Then don't leave spare money (gambling tokens) in the joint account.

Do get the £2 credit reports in your name and his so you can see the true state of the debts. And do go to counselling and/or GamAnon, real life support is vital.

Dealing with the finances in a matter of fact way is one aspect of communicating to him that there is a problem that you take seriously. It goes against his denials. Tell him truth as you see it, that it's necessary because of him gambling. Don't be sidetracked by his manipulation, self pity, anger and so forth.

Take care,

CW

Hi kitkat

Im the mum of a compulsive gambler and although mines a different relationship to yours how my son behaved and treated me was just the same as your husband.

Im sorry I cant add to all the great practical advice you've been given, but l can add my bit on the emotional side.

Everyone single emotion you're feeling is normal while living with a cg, I used to think it was just me, its only now that Im out of the situation I can see how bad it was. My son behaved just as badly towards me as your husband does to you and over time he had me convinced I was worthless, he told me often enough. I wont go over all the things he said and did suffice to say I was left feeling very broken.

Its now 10 weeks since I last saw my son and after intially falling to pieces and thinking Id never be able to recover from all the damage I can say Im actually doing ok. Looking back I dont know how I stuck it for so long, I think I just lived in hope that some how he'd want recovery and it would be ok, it finally dawned on me that he was still very much in denial so if I wanted my life to change it was going to have to be up to me to do that.

Id never tell anyone one else what to do, but what I can tell you is that life now is very peaceful and quiet and its on my terms, and for once Im putting myself first. As much as I miss my son, I know we made the right decision, not at first, every day for weeks I doubted myself , but I gritted my teeth and saw it through and now theres not doubt in my head and I know I will never let anyone treat me badly ever again.

You will feel up one minute down the next, very tearful and feel thoroughly confused on how to move forward. If you want to cry, then cry, god knows I have, way more than I care to think about but who wouldnt in the circumstances. Be kind to yourself and please dont listen to any of the awful things your husband says, none of its true.

Get yourself as much support as possible, both practically and for emotional support and just take things one day at time.

Take care

THanks Phoenix 67 and CW for your comments, it really does help knowing that we I am not on my own anymore dealing with the all the problems. I was supposed to go to my first counselling session today, but it unfortunately got cancelled until next week! I'm absolutely gutted to say the least. Have been so psyched up to get the ball rolling to get disappointed yet again. I actually managed to get through yesterday with no breakdowns, and even phoned a helpline and managed to hold it together whilst talking. I have made my mind up that I'm not going to put up with his behaviour any longer, and our marriage is so broken it is beyond repairing. After 20 years together I have no strength left to repair it, and am only interesting in healing myself. Have shed a few tears today, but not as bad as some other days. Been shopping on my own tonight, getting quite used to driving myself to the shops and buying things I like for a change (fresh flowers every week) - hey I deserve it 🙂 Thanks again everyone for your comments, I'm so glad and thankful for this forum, you have saved my life xX

Thought I would post to update..... So much has happened in the last month. I have started my counselling, only 3 sessions down, have told some family members and a close friend and feel so much better for getting it off my chest. I have been writing a diary and feel so much more positive.

I have found the courage to speak calmly (albeit tearfully) with H to tell him how I feel. Only because he was pressuring me to use his card to pay for a boys trip away. The card, which was his, I had destroyed a few weeks earlier and so he was fuming, spitting and raging that I had dared to touch his things, take them from his wallet and then destroy them. They were his property and how dare I take them!! He told me I would have to use my card instead, I said no unless he paid cash up front to me I wasn't doing it. I decided that right there and then he was going to get my full offload of how I felt there and then. Starting with how he opens all my post and I have no privacy whatsoever, can't even go to the toilet in my own! Then his anger, violent outbursts, shouting, berating, belittling etc etc etc. He was so stunned he hardly said a word, told him I didn't love him anymore and I wanted him to leave. I said I was fed up of being controlled, shouted at, and that I needed some space with him away from me. He said if that's what I wanted he would go.... But later said I was talking like I had given up and wasn't even worthy of giving it a try. For the time being he is still in the house, in the spare room for now. Saying he got nowhere to go and no way was he moving out! He said he isn't going to let it happen. I told him courts would look more favourable of me having a home and roof over our head for our son. We've chatted most evenings, but getting nowhere. Keep telling him that I do not know what the future holds, I can't see a way forward at the moment as I don't love him anymore, he has destroyed any good feelings I ever had for him. I have at the back of my mind all the nasty things he has called me and can't get them out my head, I know I've made my mind up, for my own sanity and my sons, but getting him to see this is so hard. He constantly blaming other family members for reasons why things are as they are, and blaming friends for not helping us in our very busy lifestyle. He has not really mentioned the gambling, he is in complete denial just keeps blaming everyone else. He says that now he knows how I feel it's made him more determined to stop! Don't think he has any intention of going counselling, I haven't pushed him, just keep saying that he needs to do whatever for himself, not for me, because I cannot guarantee that I will change my mind. I said what love I had has been burned and utterly destroyed, so much so that I no longer have any feeling towards him whatsoever. He has been counselling twice before (last time about 7 years ago) but only ever went to about 5 sessions saying he was cured and it was all under control.

As far as I know he hasn't been to the bookies this week, but is trying to do everything to please me, I've had more jobs done around the house and garden this week,than he's done in last 5 or so years!! He appears to be my shadow everywhere I go, think this is him trying to prove to me he's not doing anything else, it's driving my nuts. Keep telling him I need the space.

I've taken control of bank accounts, and everything really giving him money for daily needs. I've been to see a solicitor so everything is in place, just waiting for the slip up. Just cannot believe all the things I have achieved in such a small amount of time. Finding it much easier to talk to people about it, but still quite teary sometimes, just gets you out the blue.

Onwards and upwards as they say, just wish he would move out and then I can properly start rebuilding me and sons life.

Hi, KitKat,

I'm glad to hear that you feel more in control of things and better in yourself. Such changes as he has made are probably partly to do with you telling him truth as you see it and giving him reality checks.

The reaction to the card sounds familiar. I stayed first time round because I let him convince me via threats of divorce that his finances were private, that I had no right to interfere and breach his privacy, he didn't breach mine. All manipulation.

re doing things round the house, one of the GamAnon booklets quotes from a wife who said, "I expected nothing of my husband and nothing is what I got, he wouldn't even change a lightbulb." Too busy gambling.

I've heard elsewhere reports of extreme clinginess as the penny starts to drop.

Would you consider GamAnon? I find it's worth the effort.

Take care of you,

CW

Hi, I can completely agree with that comment 100%. I expected nothing from him, that was definitely what I got. That way I could never be disappointed. Birthdays, CHristmas, anniversaries and Mother's Day were just another day, An occasional gift if there were other family members there, to make it look good on himself.

I couldnt believe the cheek with his card, that I had no right to take it and then cut it up !! I wasn't allowed to do that. I said he want allowed to undo post for me, even though I have asked him not to in the past.

I think my nearest GamAnon is about 2 hr drive away, but will double check online and see if there are any nearer.

He is spending every moment trying to be the doting Dad doing things that he thinks I want him to do. It won't last cos he won't be able to carry it on for any length of time. I've had a begging letter a few nights back pleading for one last chance so that he can put things right. He has cried, pleaded, begged etc etc and I felt nothing. Just words....... Words that mean nothing. His words over the years have destroyed me. I wrote down recently some of the choice words he had used on me, they are still at the forefront of my mind and I can't push them aside. I told him he had destroyed everything, I have nothing left for him.

Never has he mentioned counselling, says he can sort it. Well we all know that won't work, I keep reiterating that he needs to sort out his problems for himself, not to prove it to me, that he owes it to himself. He continually says he is a good person and that he is okay when he doesn't do it (probably when he is asleep lol)

We will see how this week goes, but taking it a day at a time at the moment. The weekends are the toughest and I can't wait til Monday comes around and I can go out to work away from him.

Hope all is well with you CW! Sorry haven't been on here for a while to catch up.

Hi, KitKat,

I'm not bad thanks, long may it last.

My husband said the same thing about counselling, he and we didn't need it, we had to sort things out ourselves. I found this just didn't work, it left me open to his continued manipulation, he had no sense of remorse and neither of us had much idea of what was supposed to be normal. That was why I sought family therapy, because although he stopped gambling last summer, up to quite recently he was still thinking and behaving like an active addict and it wasn't possible for me to carry on. He got the message that things had to change and to be fair to him he is trying to work on himself. He still maintains that he gets more out of his GA meetings than his therapy but he does go to both, the therapy less frequently than I would like but he goes. And I gather that fellow GA members have put him straight in no uncertain terms more than once. It's slow and hard but there is progress. Starting from a low baseline but enough to justify staying married and recently, I can even remember why we did get married.

When I approached the Therapist originally, it was on the basis that we try to save the marriage and if it works (it takes two), lovely, if not, the Therapist would help us manage the split.

Don't know that my husband thinks that he's a good person apart from the gambling, whilst not having much remorse he still seemed to have lost his self respect. And I hadn't much for him after the extent of his antics and letting us find out the hard way. One for the Therapist to tackle but recently he has done a few things that do deserve respect; they say in GA and GamAnon that no one is all good or all bad and it seems to be so.

None of which is suggesting that you should stay if you've had enough. There are no prizes for martyrdom and I have frequently wondered if I'm doing the right thing. It is a case of one day at a time.

Take care,

CW