So worried

Hi missykat

There have been many times when I have wondered does my son have ADHD or some other personality disorder, I think I was looking for a reason to explain his behaviour. I have a nephew who has ADHD and on the surface I can see some similarites but when you spend time with either of them and speaking to his parents there are differences. It cleared up any thoughts I had about my son, it was the gambling that changed him, nothing else and Id say its more than likely the same with your son.

Im still stunned by some of the lies and manipulation that my son used, I ended up doubting myself many times. We want to believe them and they know that and they will use that against us.

A couple of months ago I started counselling and I feel so much better for it, when I tell my counsellor "I have a feeling " she asks me what does my gut feeling tell me and I can say with 100% accuracy that every time Ive had that feeling Ive been right. We know our kids so well, if something feels off to you, Id say you're spot on, you are not imagining anything, they are masters at manipulation. My son has subtle signs that say hes "up to something", nobody else would see it but I do, Im sure you could say the same about yours.

My son is making some steps towards recovery, some days are good and some not so good but in general moving forward although very slowly. While he sorts himself out Ive learned to step back , and look after myself and my husband, and wish I'd done it a long time ago.Im still learning so make mistakes and have moments where I slip back into Mum mode and want to help, but can see it now and get back to looking after myself first . My son had to want to get well - and so does yours, I needed to leave him alone , theres nothing more we can say or do that will alter that and while we wait for him we look after ourselves. I make lots of mistakes and some days are just rubbish but so so much better once I started putting myself first. We decided to use tough love, and did have to get quite tough but he took notice and I think it accounts for a large part of his wanting to get well.

Your husband sounds the same as mine, he'd get angry and then a row would start and Id get upset and I felt so alone didnt know what to do. I came to this forum, took in as much as advice as I could get and got myself counselling. The very first time I saw my counsellor it was as if some one had lifted a huge weight off my shoulders, I think I cried for a solid hour the frist time. I can say anything to her, things that I wouldnt say to anyone else, and I stopped feeling like I was on my own and going mad.

My son is home now after being told to leave for a while, he goes to counselling and is starting to talk to us properly again. Our home is quiet and peaceful for the first time in years.

You probably think the way I used to, that nobody else's life can be as chaotic and mad as yours, but we are all here and understand how you feel. Start putting yourself first, get yourself some help- Gamcare can help you with that, and dont be so hard on yourself you are doing your best, Im sure you're a great Mum. 🙂

And everything you say makes sense to us all here.

Aw thank you everyone for your responses especially you as67 as everything you have said makes perfect sense, and sounds just like my son. He doesn't steal off us and it's some time since he " borrowed " money and I use the word very loosely as I always thought borrow means to give back.
What I don't understand is where the phones keep going and where he gets the money from to gamble. And also how many pay day loans will they let him get.

Hi missykat

When my son started gambling 4 years ago, we didnt really take much notice, we found some scratch cards, his wallet would go missing, he'd lost his bank card, someone stole from him, the list goes on and each one on their own just seemed like one of those things that could happen to anyone. We didnt see it then, knew his behaviour was changing but never really thought he was gambling.

Over time all these things started to happen more often, and when asked about it he'd make up a story just enough to put us off track. He never seemed to have any money even with a part time job, he'd borrow from us and never paid us back, we even got conned into an expensive phone contract that we are still paying for, and so far he still wont pay us back.

We went along like this for some time, gradually his behaviour was getting worse and the lies more ridiculous every time, we knew something wasnt right. He was so good at the manipulation we never really knew just how bad his gambling had got until about 2 years ago. Wow when that penny dropped I was devastated couldnt believe my lovely son was gambling and couldnt think why he would be.

In the last 2 years his gambling got progressively worse, he turned into what I could only describe as a monster, he was stealing from us, friends and his girlfriend. He took out many pay day loans at least 10 and couldnt pay them back so got more, Im still not sure how many exactly. The pay day loan companies give loans out easily, not like the big high street lenders these companies give out loans far too easily. He now owes thousands, and thats something thats hes yet to deal with. When I realsied what he was doing I took his name off the electorol roll, to try and slow down his debt , its very rare any company will go near you if you are not on it. He would realise what I'd done and put himself straight back on and then I'd take him off again, it was ridiculous but I did it, anything to try and stop his borrowing.

As the gambling got worse his behaviour was intolerable, he was vile and he was told to leave. That was the hardest thing ever but very necessary. We decided that it was time for tough love, little to no contact and only if he could be polite to us, no money, no favours of any discription and if we had to speak it was as brief as possible, that wasnt really a problem because he was so angry with us he didnt talk to us for quite a while.

We seemed to go round in circles and we knew something had to give, he was getting worse, family life was awful and I really thought I was going to have a break down of some discription.

The majority of gamblers get worse with time, some not so and get to their rock bottom before they get to the point my son did, hopefully yours wont get that bad.

My reason for telling you all this is hopefully to help you, not upset you or cause you more worry,I wish someone had told me what gambling does to a person and their loved ones a long time ago, and I had wised up so to speak.

All gamblers will do what ever they have to get their next fix, wether thats lies, manipulation, stealing on some occassions what ever it takes. It doesnt matter that we are their Mum, wife, partner etc,, they just need their next fix, you cannot reason with them, make them get help, beg them to get help or try or anything else, you might as well be hitting your head against a brick wall. It isnt until their life is so rubbish that they want to get well, and unfortunately we have to wait for that, it took me a long time to realise that but eventually I did.

One thing that changed the way I looked at things was seperating the lies from the love I had for him, I knew he was going to lie and once I realised that it stopped that part of it hurting so much. If it was important I asked him if he was prepared to prove it and he would say no, I should trust my own son, (more manipulation). I learned to say ok and walk away.

Stop trying to make sense of it all, it wont, it will drive you mad, there isnt a reason, it just happened, very hard to hear I know but necessary for you. Do all of those things people tell you on here, all very wise people who have been there done that. Most importanlty is look after yourself first and foremost ( I know cracked record) but if you look after yourself you will be more able to offer him support when hes ready, thats moral support not financial. - never ever give him money no matter what story he gives you, believe me Ive heard some good ones.

Start doing things for yourself, a bubble bath, a movie, sounds daft but it gives you a bit of breathing space, in time you will relaise just how much it helps. Keep coming to this forum, tell us good and bad, have a good rant what ever it takes, dont sit there on your own worrying.

Take care of yourself every day from now on 🙂

.

Thank you for you're message again as67 everything you say makes so much sense and I have always had suspicions but even though I have known for sure on some occasions he has managed to convince me that it's not happening.

The thing is my son is 35 now and when his first daughter was born 15 years ago things were going to change and he is still telling me the same thing he now as 3more children born out of a disastrous relationship. It's nearly 12 months since he has seen the little ones partly his fault party not, and they aren't allowed to speak to us. Having said that the poor kids don't know who they are to speak to half the time, even down to the mothers family. I just know he loves those children and I can't understand why he isn't doing more to be able to see them.
Like I said in my previous post he doesn't steal from us, but then we don't see him very often and we have stopped giving him money, but it makes me feel sick if I am eating and happen to think about him and his girlfriend in case they have no food in the house.

I feel really bad saying this but it used to be constantly on my mind, but now the longer I don't hear off him or see him the less I worry. I just hope nothing bad ever happens to one of us before things are put right because the guilt would be immense. He always says I don't care about him, he couldn't be further from the truth. I would give my life for my kids.
It really makes me so sad that he is missing out on so much time with all of his family, time he will never get back.
K xx

Hi missykat

Im sure your son loves his children very much and to us its hard to understand why as you say he isnt doing more to try and see them, Id like to bet he doesnt understand it as well. Gamblers are the most selfish peole you will ever meet, its all about the next bet and nothing and no one else comes close to that, very hard to hear but its true. Ive come to accept this, hate it and its hurts like hell but its just the way it is for a gambler.

Im disabled and have mobility problems and one day Id fallen over, unhurt but give myself quite a fright and couldnt get back up, I had to ask my son to help me up and he refused and walked away. Turns out he was in a rush to catch the Bookies before it closed. I had to sit there until my husband came home, and he was extremely angry while I cried at the cruelty from my own son. Theres many other occassions where I was dumb founded by what seems like his lack of love and care. How could this monster be my son, who I love so much and as you said I would give my life for him, I had to stop trying to make sense of it, it was driving me mad.

Going to counselling has helped me in so many ways, one big part is I understand so much more about what my son is thinking. Im told he will have poor self esteem - I already know that, he will most definetly hate himself, and doesnt understand why he gambles when its wrecking his and our lives and doesnt know how to stop.

I used to feel guilty when I had moments when I wasnt thinking about him, hes been all Ive thought about for years, now if I start "over thinking things " I stop myself and distract myself and I can guarantee you my son most defintely isnt worrying about me. Ive gone through every emotion I can think of, anger, hate, love, and like you a strong sense of sadness and always felt guilty for one reason or another. I thought Id done this to him in some way.

Ive worried about my son going hungry, I used to give him money before I realised he was gambling it away, then when I did I bought him food and that would cause arguments between me and my husband for "giving in to him".

Eventually as I said earlier we decided something had to give and he had to leave once and for all, no hand outs, of any discription, little to no contact. At first he would send me texts telling me he was hungry and didnt have any money for food, and we didnt give him anything, the feeling of guilt was awful , letting my son go hungry. When I had my light bulb moment I realised I wasnt letting him go hungry, he was, he was choosing to gamble rather than buy food and if I did buy him food it just ment what money he did have went on gambling, - he never bought food. At one point he was sleeping in bus shelters, and of course you can imagine how upset I was at that, but my thinking on that changed too. I thought enough s*d this its time to get tough and so we did.

Your son is and adult, he's making his own choices and I guarntee you he and his family will not go hungry, its manipulation again. Do not under estimate just how calculating and manipulative a gambler can get, they will say and do what ever they need to and throwing a guilt trip on Mum is one of the best, they know what they are doing. Once I got wise to what he was doing I started to feel better, and it felt like I got some control back and it sort of knocked the wind out of him, he couldnt get round me any more.

I was told leave him alone, get on with your own life, I was a bit shocked really seemed a bit blunt plus how could I not think about him, look at the state of him. Turns out its the best advice I ve been given, and I will say the same to you. I started what I call normality, just basic every day stuff that everyone else does, a normal life that wasn't consumed by what my son was doing, and eventually he didnt rule our lives any more.

Look after yourself first.

A x

Hi it's been some time now since I last posted on here, but I'm afraid to say my fears have actually been confirmed. I don't think they are quite as bad as I thought because he does seem to buy himself the odd thing now and then. Anyway on Friday my suspicions finally got the better of me and I went into the town where he lives and low and behold as I was walking up the road who was 20 or so yards ahead but him, and where did he go? yes straight into the bookies at 8.50 am. I followed him and stood outside looking at him. He was sitting by one of the fobts looking really down and lost. So I stood looking at him and he looked at me for a minute as if he didn't know who he was looking at so I put my hand up and gave a little wave, and the penny seemed to drop and he came out to me ready with the excuse that he was just using some odd change he had in his pocket.
Anyway rightly or wrongly (I really don't know ) I told him that I was through with it all and dont want to know any more, and we had nothing to talk about. Anyway he pleaded with me to hear him our so we had a chat and he opened up to me more than he ever has before. It turned out that he had already been in once that morning with ВЈ10 he had taken out with him to get a hair cut but the shop wasn't open so he went in the bookies and lost it, so he went home for another £10 to try to win it back before his gf found out. I know this seems a small amount of money to worry about but had I not have turned up when I did it could have ended up being considerably more.
We had quite a chat and he told me that he had been lying about it for years and he no longer has any emotion about anything. He swears he wants help. On Saturday he fessed up to his gf and is making an appointment with his gp for this week. For the first time ever I feel more confidant that he really wants to change.
The thing is he has asked me to go with him as his gf is working, but does it seem right that at 36 his mother goes to his GP with him ? It's really difficult talking to his Dad about it because he is such a determined minded person he can't understand why if you want to stop doing something you can't just stop.I want to do anything possible to help him turn his life around but at the same time have tried to help for so many years and got nowhere. At the end of the day I'm not getting any younger and we need a peaceful life now.
One last thing to ask is would he benefit from CBT as it's a good 70 miles or more to the nearest GA meeting, so thought he could try something first and maybe then try GA.
So sorry for the long post but really didn't know where to start.

Hi missykat

It doesnt sound at all wrong to want to go to the gp with your son, I know I would with my son, the fact that yours wants to go is a positive step, Ive never been able to get mine to go. Its good that hes talking to you , and that he says he wants to get help but you need to remember that gamblers (even our lovely sons) manipulate us and wont hesitate to use it when they need, i.e being caught in the Bookies. Maybe he is genuine but if so is he prepared to do what ever he needs to do to prove he wants to get well and no half measures, if hes delaying or not ready to hand over finances to you or his girlfriend and wont commit to counselling Im sorry but Id be highly doubtful of his intentions.

Hopefully this is his rock bottom and he wants to get well more than anything, but this is something he has to do for himself, nothing anyone even his Mum can do or say will alter that and as hard as it is we have to accept that. I used to believe everything my son told me then it turned in to wanting to believe him then I just accepted he was lying and it got to the point where I said that he had to be prepared to prove what he was saying or I knew it was a lie.

My husband is similar to yours, he used to think that our son could just stop gambling to if he wanted to, and it used to cause arguments between us, however over time he sees its not as simple as that. My husband is brilliant dad and he does love our son but he's never had the gut churning anxiety that I have ever had. My counsellor told me that it is true that men and women, Mums and Dads do think differntly to each other its not that one parent loves the child more than the other its just different. Men tend to be more practically minded and just get on with things where as women feel the emotion more and I see that now. I used to get frustrated at my husband for not "seeing things" the way I did but counselling really helped with that and it was an hour to say what ever I wanted to, cry, rant the whole lot and I feel a great deal better for it. I know everything Ive thought and worried about was all perfectly normal in the circumstances and I really think its helped me keep my sanity which some days I was worried I was going to lose.

What Im about to say doesnt come naturally to us Mums as all we want is our sons to be well but the only thing Ive found that makes any difference is to get tough with them, the old tough love thing. Its very very hard, your hearts telling you to do one thing and your head knows to be cautious, and dont trust them know no matter what sob story they tell you unless they are prepared to prove it.

You can support him, go to the gp with him, help him sort some counselling, take over his finances, and I would tell him he has to show you absolutely everything, debts the lot and see what his response is. Your son is grown man the same as mine and they have choices and free will, we did not cause this we have done nothing wrong.

I have no idea where my son is at this moment, and as awful as this is I can say even this is better than living with what he became.

Take care

Thankyou as67
As it turned out we are on holiday this week and wanted to go somewhere today which I told my son. Anyway I left me phone at home and when I got back he had rang me and sent a text sayin that he had an appointment for 4.30 and that his gf was going with him which to me is what it should be. After all it is her that has to live with him as I have told him and I'm sure he knows that he will never live with us again as much as we love him. I'm afraid it would be either him or us.
Obviously I can't be 100% sure things will change but I'm feeling more positive than ever before. This time I didn't lose it with him when we spoke I stayed calm and told him that it was his life and to do with it what he pleased but we wouldn't be a part of it or stand by and watch him lose anymore.
I live in hope and sincerely hope that you're son is safe and well.

Hi missykat

You are doing all the right things 🙂

When I was first told to do the same as Ive told you I thought it sounded a little harsh how could I leave my son to sort himself out the state he was in but Ive had to learn its the only way. My son is younger than yours not much out of being a teenager and he started gambling while he was at school, just scratch cards to begin with but that was the time we noticed a change in his behaviour. Hes an adult now but still young and I found it very hard to let go, but as was pointed out to me on many many occasions he is an adult and can do as he likes. It took me along time to accept that its his choice and I cant change that.

I worried constantly what was going to become of him, he seemed hell bent on self destrction and there wasnt a thing I could do about it. I had to learn to stop worrying about the future so much, its one day at a time or as Amom says just keep putting one foot in front of the other, I dont want to think any further than that.

The hardest thing to do is leave them to sort it for themselves but its the way it needs to be. Your son is making signs of progress and Im sure the gp will be of some help, he can also call Gamcare who will help him with counselling and can give him some support while thats set up, if he wants to get well badly enough he will find a way.

I hope my son is safe Im choosing to think he is, I wont let myself think any different. I miss him so much and the urge to go and find him is strong but I know that wouldnt be a good idea, Id probably cave in and sccop him up and bring home, not a good idea at all.

I hope you're having a lovely holiday and doing plenty of relaxing, we are just about to start ours this weekend, nothing special just some days to ourselves in peace.

Take care

Hi as67
My son has suffered a lot with ill health, well if I'm honest we don't really know how bad it has been and I don't think he truly knows anymore. I think some of the time has been genuine but I really think a lot of the time has been a tool to manipulate or cover up the fact that he hasn't been to work yet again.
To be honest my head gets pretty muddled putting everything into perspective and trying to decide which is the truth and which is a lie.

Hi missykat

My son too has had illness, a very serious illness which took him a long time to recover from and he does have some lasting effects but nothing that stops him leading a normal life. When he sees that his manipulation isnt working the way it used to he will say its because of these "lasting effects", and my reply now is ok lets go to the gp, but of course we never do. Dont under estimate just how manipulative they can be, my son became an expert at it.

I used to wonder was his illness in some way a reason as to why he gambles, or was it something I did wrong or we as a family did wrong, but the truth is none of these things did it, it just happens. Gamblers come from all walks of life, and I would never of thought it possible that my son who came from a happy family who is so loved and cared for could ever have had this happen to him and us but again, it just happened.

My head used to feel like it was going to burst trying to make sense of the chaos and lies, he literally told lie on top of lie to cover his tracks. He would say "you dont believe your own son" which would make me feel dreadful forever doubting him, yet again more of his manipulation.In the end I said if you want me to believe you then prove what you are saying and to this day he hasnt proved a thing. Its all about the next bet and nothing else matters, no matter who we are to them, - gamblers lie fullstop!

I have stopped trying to work out what is a lie and what isnt, I know that while he gambles most of it is lies and Ive come to accept that, and the lies dont bother me any more. Once you stop trying to make sense of something that just doesnt make any sense you will stop tormenting yourself, you wont need to put anything into perspective and decide what is the truth and whats a lie it really doesnt matter, its not important.

I dont have the muddled thoughts anymore, I dont drive myself mad wondering if we could of done anything different, etc etc, none of it makes any difference. At the risk of repeating myself I'll tell you what I was told when I first came to this forum,

We cant fix them

We didnt cause this

Take a step back and leave them be

Get on with our own lives

All very true and necessary

Take care

Thankyou
The rational side of my brain knows all this really.
You take care too.

Sorry to be a pain as67 I know you have enough of you're own worries but was wandering what you think. Do you think it's ok for a cg to go to the bingo or are you of the same opinion as me that you wouldn't say it was ok for a alcoholic to drink lager but not whisky. I'm not for one minute saying that there is anything wrong with the occasional game for most people but to me if you're a cg you should avoid any form of gambling.

Hi missykat

Please dont ever think you're being a "pain" we are all here to support each other, ask as much as you like 🙂

For a gambler to succeed in their recovery they must never place a single bet ever again, not even seemingly innocent bingo. You and I can play a game of bingo or put the lottery on then walk away and be done with it, a compulsive gambler cant do that, its still feeding into their addiction. My son once asked me to put the lottery on for him, I told him no and that I will never help him to gamble. As you said would it be ok to give an alcoholic a lager but not a whiskey, of course its a no this is no different its still alcohol and bingo is still gambling.

If you think its a no tell him so, dont argue with him or justify yourself, say no and leave him to it. Remember they are brilliant manipulators and will have you convinced black is white if they can.

X

Thank you and no I am in total agreement with you and to be fair it wasn't him that said it. It was his gf but in her defence I still don't think she realises the enormity of his problem, I think maybe some of her friends and family play but they probably haven't got addictive personalities. I don't want to patronise her by keep telling her but we have had these problems for years and I as I'm sure you feel the same have a gut instinct about you're kids that no one else has including their Dad's ( sorry Dad's) no matter what age they are. And we all want what's best for them (including Dad's ) and wasting hard earned money that you can ill afford whilst lining the pockets of the already wealthy gambling industry isn't my idea of the best.
For goodness sake why can't he get addicted to sport (playing it) or something less harmful.
Take care Kath