How much to cut out?

Hi Happy (great name)!

I was/am in a similar situation as you only my sport of choice is horse racing. For most of my life I am one of the minority who also enjoy watching horse racing as a sport and not just a gambling opportunity. I think this stems from my parents taking me all over the country to visit most of the racecourses when I was a kid and me just enjoying the spectacle of the sport and a day out somewhere.

Anyway, as an adult I have also gambled on horse racing and for most of my adult life I've actually been reasonably successful with that gambling. This year I had a melt down and made a few silly bets and lost a bit of cash that I shouldn't have. I then entered a surreal period where I lost my mind for want of a better way of describing things and I just couldn't cope with that sense of loss (even though it really wasn't a huge amount). The upshot being that like many here, it wasn't so much the initial loss that was the problem, it was the 'chaser' effect whereby we just can't accept the loss and start gambling recklessly with large stakes just to try to get back to where we started. The danger for us all is quite a lot of the time it works and this gives us a ridiculous sense of achievement even though it was all down to pure Russian roulette luck!

Anyway, my story was that a series of small(ish) losses turned into a couple of significant losses (i.e. cash I couldn't really afford to lose) and I realised I was out of control. Fast forward to October and I am many days gambling free now - not sure the exact figure but think I am over 120+). BUT to do it and trust myself I cut out watching any horse racing. For a time it was made easier as the sport went into shut down like all others but obviously has started up again. I have tested the water a few times such as watching bits of occasional Saturday racing and I thoroughly enjoyed it without the slightest urge to have a bet. In fact the reverse happened with me in that I found it very relaxing to enjoy the racing without any stress of having my money on the result.

Sorry for the long ramble but your post really interested me as I have been experiencing similar issues. In truth there will be a number of people that will advise you to just not take any risk at all and cut NFL out of your life. I prescribe more to the mantra that everyone is different. In some cases absolutely you are on a hiding to nothing by risking watching a sport you used to gamble on whether you enjoy the purely sporting aspect to it or not. In other cases I think it may be possible to carefully control allowing yourself to watch the occasional game and gradually re-train your brain to watch NFL because it interests you and you enjoy it and disconnect the notion that you have to gamble in order to watch the game.

My personal perspective is that we as  individuals that have a whole range of different gambling behavioral issues can't entirely rule out all the things that we gain pleasure from in life otherwise what is the point of living that life? BUT you do need to be really honest with yourself and work out whether you genuinely miss NFL because of the stimulus you got from watching the game proceed, or if the kick you got was actually gambling related. If you can honestly disassociate the NFL from the gambling then with great caution you may be able to fall in love with the sport again as a purely recreational spectator. If not then you simply have to give the sport up however much it hurts.

For me, I am still taking it ultra cautiously and am allowing myself only to watch the racing very occasionally. I hope I can get back to loving my sport for sport's sake rather than looking to make a quick buck...but if I can I am going to do so very steadily as I never want to go back to who I became earlier this year, nothing is worth that! 

Hi Happy 

So first of all - you're around 400+ days gamble free? That's pretty impressive and is definitely worth acknowledging. I've read lots of posts about gambling on slots and casinos etc. that I can't really relate to, but from what you have said you sound alot like me so I thought I'd reply.

I too love the NFL, although tbh it's been a bit of a saviour as I've never had a gambling relationship with it. Horse racing was definitely my downfall, and when I was found out and all of a sudden had to not only stop gambling but also stop watching it was a massive deal for me.

Like you I initially resisted, I'd invested so much time and money in the sport I didn't want to throw that all away. But after a month or so I found myself not thinking about it as much and I started reading and connecting more with my family- it helped to calm my mind.

Someone on here told me I needed to cut the cord and step away from horse racing or I'd never be free. I now believe that to be true. You'll be aware it was the Arc yesterday- I used to love those big group 1s but it was barely on my radar. I saw the result on BBC Sport while reading about the football- for a split second I thought "argh I would have backed that", but it was only a fleeting thought. Then my brain kicked in and said "yes, but how much would you have lost in the process".

So for me, I have to say goodbye to horse racing, it's for the best. It's always been about betting so I can't afford to start watching races or look at cards as it's putting temptation in my way.

I'm lucky that while I've had the odd bet on football and NFL, I genuinely don't have that link with these sports and actually I enjoy watching them more now. When I really think back about how I felt while watching a sport I'd bet on, it was never healthy emotions - more like anxiety and worry.

So circling back to the point, I'd say it depends on how deep the link was between the sport and gambling. I've made the tough decision that horse racing had to go, but football and NFL could stay as it was never really about the gambling with them. Just be honest with yourself, and that might mean having to make a tough decision.

Ultimately I couldn't imagine living without horse racing in my life in July. But here I am in October not missing it and all the better for moving on.

I wish you well my friend.

SJC 

Hi

I think you have to keep talking through what you really get from watching a sports event.

Surely I would have thought you can get the enjoyment from the sportmanship, the skills on display, the goals and the near misses.

Im not massive on sports but when I do enjoy watching something gambling doesnt enter my mind. I think thats partly because I understand the odds and the teams of risk analysts that are not offering life changing odds on a no brainer decision.

I like the world cup but I dont gamble on it. It would be nice if England won again but Im not too jingoistic. Im a realist about world talent and just enjoy seeing the skills on display.  Yes Im saddened at times but may the best team win. The odds are set so that short of an unexpected miracle nobody is going to make much. They key point is that the gambling dens are calculating every eventuality from the start

I dont think sports betters truly understand the odds and like every gambling addict they ignore the odds and the fact that the risk is all with you really

With Horse racing, its all built around gambling. I dont think many people would be interested in watching horses or dogs around a track if it wasnt for the huge gambling promotion behind it.

So I would say you have to take a break from NFL if you are not appreciating the sport just for what it is. You have to discuss why you would want to add a bet and just what you are really getting out of it. If you have a favourite team you watch for the passion, joy or disappointment of a loss. I would have thought that should be the only emotional rollercoaster you need for an entertaining afternoon

Some people make it a family and friends event. I could say watch for some chocolate matchmakers or washing the dishes but I dont want to encourage any gambling feeling.

You need to talk to non sports people and non gamblers because they will give you the reality you can focus on.

I always exagerate the point that nobody is offering you life changing odds on Man U vs The Grannies 11. NOBODY! I really dont understand sports betting in the same way you probably dont understand machine betting but its essentially the same addiction.

So keep talking about it and have monitoring in place. The most important thing is that you have got protective measures in place and told people close youve had a problem with it. There is no shame in admitting that. This addiction has affected millions of people

Best wishes from everyone on the forum

@happy123 Congrats on your abstainence so far. For me, through my experience, when I start watching sports but start noticing the things that I would have bet on then I know I have to leave the sport alone for a while. There will always be another match to watch, be it football, American football, cricket, third division badminton!

For me now football is enjoyable to watch, I don't care about corners or total points on bookings, but I did notice that on cricket I started to notice old traits coming back. The number of runs in so many overs, how many 4's, etc, so I've decided it's best to leave it alone and try again next season.

That's also after nearly 3 years off but for me it's now an awareness. Relapses don't tend to just happen, they start a little while beforehand, and so if I continued on this path there is a good chance I could get caught up in it again, and no one wants that!

I hope that helps a little.

Chris.

Hi All,

Thanks very much for all your replies, very honest and varied outlooks. @MythDunk, I am probably at the minute more in your "Horse Racing" camp in that NFL was a sport that I had an unhealthy relationship with in terms of gambling. Like you, it started off watching Superbowls as a kid who didn't know anything about betting, but it developed into something more sinister in later years. While my "extreme" drug of choice was most certainly Horse Racing, in that I could lose hundreds in a half an hour spell, NFL was more more a death by a thousand cuts approach. It was probably my "favourite" time to gamble as it was late on a Sunday night, after generally a hard week completed and perhaps the missus and little one would be off to bed by that stage. So perhaps I really built up to this time of the week when I was alone, with my phone and didn't have to worry about anyone looking over my shoulder wondering what I was looking at or having to "run off" to toilet to place a bet when amongst company. I found it to be an "escape" from other things when really the gambling was causing every issue in my life. So in that regard perhaps it's that little demon on my shoulder trying to entice me back into that mindset and get me going back down that path again. I will be very mindful.

@SJAnon, I think you are right. When you have an unhealthy relationship with something you should try and give it up and move onto something else. I suppose if you think of it logically (which you don't do much of when you are gambling), if you had a friend that was always getting you in trouble, you would more than likely distance yourself from that friend and move on somewhere else, no matter how funny or how long you had been friends to start with. Surely that applies to sports too especially when you are gambling.

@Joydivider, I think you hit the nail on the head yourself there when you said "Surely I would have thought you can get the enjoyment from the sportmanship, the skills on display, the goals and the near misses." and then sort of say that you don't really understand how sports bettors can be so blind to the fact that the odds are stacked against them. This is 100% the truth, but after compulsively gambling for about 10-12 years I can say that this affected me completely. I am not an unintelligent person. I have an undergrad and a Post Graduate degree to my name. I thought I had a divine right to be good at gambling. I thought I would be "different" when it came to gambling and that I would re-write the book on being a successful gambler. Alas I was the same as so many that when I won I gambled, when I lost I gambled. When I had money I gambled, and when I did not have money, I borrowed....and then I gambled. I started out being an absolute football fanatic and I idolised Roy Keane. I would be visibly distraught if Man Utd lost a match on a Saturday afternoon. That was at 15/16. Fast forward ten years and all the joy of football and other sports was out the window for me. Gone. All I cared about was winning money. I would bet against my favourite teams, I would bet on anything. It got so bad that I could only watch most sports if I had a bet on it. As you said, I lost what brought me into the games in the first place, the skill, bravery, athleticism etc was now completely lost on me. 14 Months into recovery and it's starting to come back slowly, but it's like completely retraining your brain. I can't really describe it. But I'm getting there with it and someday I hope to be that crazy lunatic in the stand going bezerk when their team scores/wins whatever and it's all emotion as I don't have a penny invested in it.

It's funny that you used that analogy @chris-uk, cricket was never a sport that appealed to me when I was younger but I was drawn to it because of the structured nature of it. I found it to be a real "betting sport". It had so many markets that were repetitive. 1st over runs, 1st 5/10 over runs, total innings runs etc. I think when I started backing cricket was when I really started to spiral. It gave me an ability to be hanging onto a bet for the best part of 5/6 hours rather than say horse racing which was over in 5 mins. A prolonged high if you will. I think you are right with what you say, and I have also noticed the same in my dealings with the NFL where my mind invariably wanders to thinking about the over/unders of the total points or the handicap spread on a particular game. 

I think you are all quite right in your own ways....I think I need to put a pause on my over indulgence on the NFL and introduce it a bit more gradually so that I don't fall back into that trap again. Thank you all for your comments.

Cheers, Happy.

Hi Happy congrats on the great choice to not gamble

I was so frenzied as a gambler it was a bit of everything so whilst I won't even buy a raffle ticket now I would never be able to watch sport at all and that almost doesn't feel healthy - I have a much busier life now so don't get as much time to watch sport but if I do I do often find myself muting and betting adverts, I almost like the reminder that I'm in control and I truly despise the gambling industry and lack of proper controls but that's a very emotionally driven viewpoint!  

I would say though that even if I was watching another gripping ashes series, in the decider with two hours to play or the Rugby world cup final and I felt any kind of trigger I would choose to switch it off and walk away, maybe picking up radio coverage but I'd rather take that decision - it would be an easier consequence to live with

Weighing up what you have said. I'd avoid watching the NFL, when you described your relationship with it as sinister that means enough to try and avoid it. 

I won lots of money on winning a fantasy football competition when I was young, it was free to enter and I'd only ever really bet a £5 on a coupon until then. After this, I developed some serious gambling habits, I always enjoyed the notion of gambling.

Be careful: I went 8.5 years without gambling once I hit rock bottom, using great mental strength, I then opened an account to play free poker games which could earn you a £5 to do coupons, 18month later the d**n broke and I was back to heavy gambling, listen to your inner self if the alarm bells are ringing.

Good luck.