Day 10 - Ending Slot machine use forever hopefully

Hi Fallout

I don't want to preach and I'm not an expert in anything but losing time, my mind and money. Did you get a chance to read my post on here called Do you want to give up gambling ? There might just be something on there that helps beyond the blocks. 

Can I ask why Moses isn't stopping you playing FOBTs ? Also, if you have blocked your bank card from gambling and reduced your withdrawal limit, how can you still play them ? Just questions mate not accusations 

Again not teaching you to suck eggs but journaling on here really helps each of us and others reading it. Writing up how each day has been for you is therapy, allows you to get it out, a good reminder of what you are doing and when read by others they know what the road might look like. 

I can hear a lot of determination in your words and on the chatroom tonight mate. I never thought I would make it through ten minutes let alone 10 days.

I was never a binge gambler but plenty are and it's not a competition. You have me really intrigued as to how that feels, how you stop between binges, what sort of thoughts you have to go back and how that gambling psyche built up over the years. I would love to read your back story if you and when you feel comfortable to share mate

Hi Fallout i understand the binge gambling side i started of gambling in 2005 on fruit machines and started being an issue when i started playing £250 fruit machines around 2 years after and then i started playing fobt i went to Ga in 2010 when i realised i had a major problem at that point i would be in bookies everyday along with casino from then on i did improve however i became a binge gamblier i went on and off to ga many years and even managed 3 years bet free however since joining gamcare i was still gambling until i had my worse relapse i realised i need to take this addiction more seriously at Ga i was only attending 1-2 meetings per week then i would end up missing these meetings the difference now i spend alot of time on these forums i now understand its a life long process has i have been in many years in recovery my issue was i know it was possible has to remain bet free as alot of people in my Ga had done many years i believed if i can spend enough time away i wont have this problem this was my problem i would mannage weeks month away only to binge gamble i now realise the addiction doesnt go away since taking recovery i have had 1 major urge which i know had i not had the support i would have 100% relapsed the urgue came out of the blue this was few months back and i am greatful with the support from the gamcare team i have remained betfree i now realise i cant take my recovery for granted use the support here tream forums one thing i know about the addiction even with knowing all triggers and having all the blocks in urgues and temptations to gamble can still come through its at those precious time u need the extra support the helpline on here is wonderful just be honest sometimes it just a case of letting things out the urgues are temporary they dont last long something just having someone listen to you and understand how u are feeling is all it takes to prevent a relapse from occuring at my worst i would attend Ga and then go gambling it was that bad

Hi Fallout,

It was good to connect with you on the chat last night. I am however going to task us both to find something more positive in common than our gambling pattern behaviour :).

As I mentioned on the chat, and you will see from my posts, I run in these binge cycles too. It didn't start like that 14 years ago, and I'm not even sure when the cycle behaviours started. My mind is quite distorted after all these years in trying to recall what changed and when. I do believe that I started gambling with a desire to generate more money into my bank account on a monthly basis - at the time I was quite early on in my career and had a very low paying wage, and some small debts from living beyond my means during my studies. I also think that I used to get quite a buzz out of gambling, I liked the slots and flashy images and got a huge dopamine hit on the bigger bonus wins. 

I know the cycle behaviours were definitely present from around 2018. This is when I had backed myself into a corner with piling debts that I could not maintain. At this point I had signed upto a debt management plan, and swore to myself that this would be no more. 

Then came along the cycles, and as you say almost forgetting the amount of loss and hurt gambling caused. It seems trivial several weeks or months down the line, and it starts with a thought like "I'll just deposit £50 and then if it doesn't go in my favour, I'll stop. I have control, I've had control the past few weeks/months". Then on that £50 you might get a little win which takes you above average ... but it isn't quite what you had envisaged, and eventually you drain the little win and the £50. This then follows with a thougt something like "well I had a little win, that must mean a bigger bonus win is likely due. I've only lost £50, I'll put in another £100". By this point you're already locked in the zone - you were locked in the zone when you made the first deposit - and there is no coming out of it until that cycle is complete. The full cycle requires several deposits equating to hundreds or thousands of pounds. 

Triggers

I'm sharing the following in the hope that it may help you to identify, or rule out, triggers for yourself. What I do know now is that the money is not the initial trigger for me, I know how the cycle runs and completes, so I also know that I will leave the cycle in a much worse place than I was before. I also know that I'm not going to win big, over the course of my gambling history the largest 'win' i've had was x. Guess what happened to that x. Also in the grand scheme of all my debts, the things I want in life etc, x doesn't even scratch it. So what am I searching for?

Having really thought about it, this is what leads to the urges to gamble and where I am leaving myself vulnerable:

1. Boredom ... I'm allowing myself the time to clear my diary and my head for an evening, without a planned way of how I am going to use that time. Ooh I deserve to relax, I haven't made any plans, I know a good way to fill the time - commence cycle & escapism.

2. Stress ... This goes something similar to the above. Stressful week at work, or some other things going on around me ... I need to zone out and distract myself - commence cycle & escapism.

3. Procrastination ... There might be something I need to do, which I am dreading or trying to put off / ignore. I want to zone out and distract myself - commence cycle and escapism. 

Does any of the above resonate with you? It may not, but it would be great if you're able to think about and share your triggers when you're ready. 

Have you had a chance to read Stuart's post on useful suggestions to help give up gambling? Which ones do you already have in place or are you thinking about?

Lets carry on engaging regularly with GamCare and the forums - I think this might be a really good way to end the cycles permanently and stop living in the Matrix.

@lp5vut869c - Hi Stuart, I'll answer your questions the best I can.

Can I ask why Moses isn't stopping you playing FOBTs ? Also, if you have blocked your bank card from gambling and reduced your withdrawal limit, how can you still play them ? 

Okay, I have signed up for MOSES before, I self-excluded from every bookmakers in the city I live in, that is dozens of bookmakers. However, it didn't take me long during a binge cycle to figure out which bookies enforce the ban and which either ignore it or didn't seem to have any awareness of it. Additionally, there is an arcade a few miles from where I live with FOBT's that I knew for a fact never enforced any kind of bans, along with certain bookmakers.

All my bank cards and credit cards had gambling blocks on them at one point. However, I could still make withdrawals from ATM's. Withdrawal limits are usually £300 or £500 I think, including credit cards which I used to withdraw funds from ATM's. One time I came up with the idea of cutting up all of my bank and credit cards (which I did). I then added my cards to my phone to use contactless only. Well, during this phase, I discovered I could withdraw £10 at a time at my local arcade with the FOBT's by scanning my phone on  a change machine, paying £10 and out came 10 £1 coins. I could do this 10 times with each card before I reached my transaction limit. On a few occasions, I did this with my bank card and 2 credit cards I had on my apple/google pay - £300 just like that, even with my bank cards literally cut up. Through time when I had been abstinent from gambling for a while, I may end up with a new credit card or renewed bank card after expiry date, I may not cut up that card immediately as I hadn't gambled in a while. Before you know it, a few more weeks/months have passed and I am withdrawing hundreds of pounds and wasting it gambling.

This is one of the problems with my problem gambling - I function very well in other aspects of my life (work, family, friends etc), so nobody is generally aware of my gambling problem, I have just quietly built up 5 figures of debt while successfully fulfilling all of the other responsibilities in my life (apart from good long-term money management) - but all my bills are paid and I have no day to day money problems. I more or less live a normal life but with debt and gambling binges every few months.

I have been signed up with GAMSTOP for a 5 year ban - but then I read there are ways around it. The point is, these kind of 'blocks' are excellent for helping some people stop gambling. I have been on and off many of these blocking methods for over a decade and nothing has worked long-term.

I was never a binge gambler but plenty are and it's not a competition. You have me really intrigued as to how that feels, how you stop between binges, what sort of thoughts you have to go back and how that gambling psyche built up over the years. I would love to read your back story if you and when you feel comfortable to share mate

Between binges, I feel nothing, life is normal. I am not facing any many urges often or constantly fighting to stay away from gambling. However, at some point, anticipation builds up in the brain, usually slowly. I start imagining the slot games, the bonus features, what I would spend winning on etc. By the time I allow myself to start thinking that way, it is already too late. A new binge has begun. I may not have pressed the spin button yet but once my brain is thinking that way, it is already too late. Whether it's a few hours or a few days, I will definitely play slots again once this happens.

I have done a lot of research and for my recovery to be real this time I need to do these 2 key things:

1 - Interrupt any gambling related thoughts before they become narratives and start to feel inevitable. Don't suppress the thought, but just turn my attention away from it, move physically if possible. Go for a walk, make coffee - just do something else other than engage with the thought.

2 - Break the secrecy. Starting on here, eventually maybe telling close family and maybe attending local GA. Secrecy feeds the problem in my opinion.

I hope I have answered your questions. 

@tazman Thank you for your reply.

It was an interesting read and I totally get what you are saying about how it can feel like you are 'cured' after spending months away from playing slots. For me, the heart of the problem is engaging with slots related thoughts and urges. If I start to do that, whether on day 30 or on day 300, or even on day 3000, I will gamble on slots again. It will be a life-long thing to live with and for us binge slots gamblers, we simply cannot allow our minds to wonder and think about slots and winnings and bonus features etc. We must simply not engage with these slots thoughts and urges when they appear.

I have stopped trying to over analyse the 'why' of the problem gambling for me. The reason being is that I have tried that sort of thing before, along with practical gambling 'blockers' etc. None of that worked long-term for me.

I will consider counselling at some point as well. I have found out some useful insight from describing my gambling patterns to AI as well and requesting feedback, some of which has been useful and insightful. However, it is not a substitute for real counselling - which I may look into at some point.

Hi Fallout

That certainly does and shows you have done an awful lot of research. I'm not sure what to say because I do think you have the solution at the bottom and it's all about actioning them.

You've made me think back to November last year. After hundreds of mini terms of abstinence from barely a few hours to a day, I did pretty much what you describe, Gamban, Gamstop, even got on Gamprotect by complaining enough, Moses and Sense. Once I did that I thought, that stops me gambling but doesn't stop the want to gamble. I'm sure you already know and don't need me to say that gambling was what I thought was my solution, it's never been the problem. With a lot of counselling, research, GA, 12 steps I'm working through the problems in my head with an aim to arrest my addiction. It's going to take me a life time of practice but I want a gamble free life so much. I know I can exist in an amazing gamble free life one day at a time but at some point I could hit the self destruct button. I've done it so many times. I need all the tools I can get to stop that happening and keep them in my back pocket every day. 

I went to a GA meeting online and a guy said he was 51 years since his last bet but only one day away from his next one. That was so powerful to me and showed me that I need to do a lot of work for the rest of my life, a bit of recovery medicine each day. 

I hope those points at the end work for you mate and you can put them into practice. 

@12o8g9i0xr - Hi Fran, many parts of your post have really resonated with me. Before you read my reply to you, I recommend you read what I wrote above to Stuart and Tazman, as it provides more details.

I'll start by summing up my back story concisely as Stuart asked about it as well and you have told me yours:

- Early 2010s - I went through phases of gambling but no high stakes or debt involved. I did have small cycles at the beginning with online gambling though, these cycles were broken when I self-excluded from online betting sites, one at a time. I played casino games online and on FOBT's mainly, along with other forms of gambling and a little slots. I loved going to the casinos at this time. The social side of it, the drinks, the large piles of chips - it unfortunately helped my brain associate gambling as a positive which is untrue of course.

- Mid 2010s - I played higher stakes now, especially on FOBT's. Binge gambling cycles became well established

- 2019 - I think this was when the £2 maximum bet on FOBT's was introduced. This made roulette and blackjack more or less disappear from FOBT's. This change was what got me really into slots. 

2019 - Present - 7 years of binge gambling on slot machines. The debts and high stakes have been terrible for the last 5 years. The frequency of new cycles starting soon after previous ones ending has been really bad in the last 2 years. Around 2.5 years ago, I was close to needing to enter a debt management plan as well but I found a new job at the right moment which was able to cover my expenses (They are far higher than they should be due to debt repayments).

Now I'll try respond to your questions:

and I'm not even sure when the cycle behaviours started. My mind is quite distorted after all these years in trying to recall what changed and when.

As of 12 days ago (end of the last binge), I have decided I don't care anymore about the 'why' of it. Why the binge, why the cycles etc. I spent years trying to figure this out. Why do I enter gambling binges knowing the only outcome of each binge is I suffer a big loss which breaks the cycle in my head. Also knowing that anything I do win won't pay back any debt, even hypothetically, so just, why? I understand and always have understood the pointlessness of it all. Anyway, in short, I have decided that trying to analyse my cycles in this way has not helped me and it may actually have been counter productive as I am keeping the subject of slots alive in my brain by analysing it.

By this point you're already locked in the zone - you were locked in the zone when you made the first deposit - and there is no coming out of it until that cycle is complete. The full cycle requires several deposits equating to hundreds or thousands of pounds. 

Yes, I know what 'the zone' feels like. How your cycles end is exactly the same as what I experience as well. One quick thing I'll say though. My opinion is that (at least for me) even though the 'zone' may start at the first deposit, the 'cycle' does not. What I mean is that usually before I reach the bookmakers, my brain has been building up narratives about what to spend, how much I hope to win, when I hope to stop etc. What slots to play etc? By that point, the cycle has already begun. I may return home from work at 4pm for example but not be able to leave the house to go to bookmakers until 8pm due to family commitments. If my brain starts thinking about slots and going through these narratives when I get home from work, but I don't hit the spin button until 8pm. The way I see it is that the cycle has already begun at 4pm. I did not start a new cycle by clicking the spin button at 8pm. I started it much earlier by allowing myself to engage with slots thoughts and urges and turning these thoughts into narratives and priming my brain to prepare to actually gamble. When I figured this out, it was a huge moment for me in aiding my potential recovery.

Triggers

1 - Change to normal structure. For example, annual leave from work. Home alone for the weekend or on holiday or something. Basically, anything that isn't my usual routine - this can be a trigger

2 - Fatigue - Especially mental fatigue. Sometimes this is a trigger to gamble. Other times mental fatigue is the result of successfully avoiding many urges. Until the feeling of inevitability sets in and I eventually gamble.

Personally, I feel the real trigger for me though is engaging with slot related thoughts and urges. I have learned not to engage with them and not suppress them. I simply need to turn my attention elsewhere, interrupt the thought before it can feed the pathway and turn into narratives and more urges etc. If that happens, I won't stop thinking about it (over minutes/hours/days/weeks), whatever the timescale, once I engage with it, I will eventually start a new cycle.

I hope my reply has been of some help and it would be good to hear from you again seeing as we have similar binge gambling habits. 

Day 13 today (Mixed up my dates when I initially posted on the recovery diary).

Not many urges over the last few days, just a few moments when I walk past a bookmakers and I become 'very aware' it is there if that makes sense and I have to make a conscious effort to turn my attention elsewhere.

Life feels normal but I have been here sooo many times before so I am just taking it one day at a time.

Day 21, another week with no relapse so that's the main thing. Few slot machine urges over the week but I never allowed my brain to think too much about it as that just invites trouble.

Hi Fallout. How have the last couple of weeks been for you mate? I hope you're getting on okay. 🙂

@12o8g9i0xr 

Hi Fran, this is my first time back on here in weeks. I was on holiday and then very busy with a few things. I haven't been very good at keeping up with GamCare, as I am aware that braking secrecy is important as secrecy feeds the pathways to relapsing.

I am on Day 43 and I have come to the realisation that boredom is a serious risk factor for me as well. My brain demands dopamine spikes, I am currently trying to retrain my brain to work differently in order to reduce gambling urges, mainly through having an automatic response to gambling urges or thoughts of boredom such as going for a walk or 5 minutes of lifting weights ir something like that.

I will come on to the chatroom sometime this week probably.